just for fun european qwarterstaff
Britich qwarterstaff association
[url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RhMfnvwzRpY&feature=related[/url]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AnhNvfy3Oqw&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o0y8wIYTmXk&feature=related
I'm not getting between you two duelists! I just wanted to share my limited impressions of Wing Chun.
[big ups]
I took a couple of seminars with US-visiting William Cheung in NYC back during the summer of '83, I think. While that qualifies me as near enough a noob, I'm not completely uninitiated. Wing Chun was the least acrobatic and most simple (that's not a bad thing) of any kung-fu I've personally studied. It's a soft style, preferring conservation of movement and precise, advantageous leverage and positioning. In many respects it was quite like Aikido.
My friend Jason Devlin has been studying Wing Chun for a decade now, and he absolutely loves the style.
[/big ups]
|
S
e
o
n
i
small question
I have been confused by it for while, one end is a light weapon. what is the attack value if my sorcerer level 1 with my feats were to use her quarter staff for two attacks in one round?
and if she at second level decided to become a monk what would be her attack bonus now? using for two attacks and for flurry?
anyhow what is the verdict on the quarter staff?
S
e
o
n
ismall question
I have been confused by it for while, one end is a light weapon. what is the attack value if my sorcerer level 1 with my feats were to use her quarter staff for two attacks in one round?
and if she at second level decided to become a monk what would be her attack bonus now? using for two attacks and for flurry?anyhow what is the verdict on the quarter staff?
See Beta rules table 9-7 Page:153
So Two weapon figthing: -2 / -2 on attack rolls-full strenght damage on primary hand (considered a one handed weapon)
-half strength damage on off hand attack (considered ligth weapon)
(Also check Beta page:100 double weapon rules, it explains how to do
1 1/2 strenght damage if swinging like a two handed weapon)
with Weapon finesse :
-Dex bonus to attack roll(off hand weapon only)because it is treated as a light weapon
with Weapon finesse house rule: Qwarterstaff is finessable and does only half strength bonus damage to both ends except for monks(special)
Flurry with qwarterstaff:
-a monk adds an extra attack at his higest base attack bonus
at the expence of accuracy giving a -2 on all his attacks
with full strength damage on both attacks (Beta rule)
(house rule)
since a monk's flurry is kind of a two weapon figthing ability
i dont alow this feat with flurry of blows
at 4th level he can had an other attack to flurry of blows spending one Ki point and there are other feats to improve on that...
i do allow weapon finesse to any monk unharmed,natural or monk specific weapons attacks with full strength damage(house rule)
i would like someone from pathfinder to at least certify that the
off-hand of a qwarterstaf using two weapon figthing is finessable
I'm not getting between you two duelists! I just wanted to share my limited impressions of Wing Chun.
[big ups]
I took a couple of seminars with US-visiting William Cheung in NYC back during the summer of '83, I think. While that qualifies me as near enough a noob, I'm not completely uninitiated. Wing Chun was the least acrobatic and most simple (that's not a bad thing) of any kung-fu I've personally studied. It's a soft style, preferring conservation of movement and precise, advantageous leverage and positioning. In many respects it was quite like Aikido.My friend Jason Devlin has been studying Wing Chun for a decade now, and he absolutely loves the style.
[/big ups]
As you said Jade, Conservation of energy, lack of huge amounts of movement (no kicks above the waist, no spinning kicks or punches)
There a Reason why its refered to as "Chineese Boxing"Wing Chung Kung Fu was invented by a female shaolin monk of advanced age by the name (you guessed it) Ving Tsung (sounds like Wing chung, its just the difference between Madarin or Cantoneese)
Anyway, Ving Tsung was a member of a monastary that was attacked and almost wiped out by the Chineese Emporers Army, because the Emporer feared the power of the monks.
Ving Tsung was able to escape, but feared greatly for her own life, and that she would be hunted down. In her advanced age, she could not hope to fight off the many attackers that would undoubtedly be after her, she was no longer strong in the Shaolin style (very hard).
This prompted her to invent the new style now named after her. Which is very soft.
Yip Man (my kung fu grand father) is considered the Father of Modern Wing Chung. As far as I know, the vast Majority of American Practioners of the art, are disciples decended from Yip Mans Students.
My Sifu was a student of Yip Mans' Directly.
My current Sifu is a Student of Yip Mans' Son, and The current Grand Master of the art (Yip Man is dead).
So you see, a Kung Fu Style developed by an elderly woman would hardly be based on great strength or agility.
Something should be actually studied, and learned, before commented on.
RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32
|
I personally quite like the idea of the Quarterstaff being Finessable. It is something I have thought about on more than one occasion.
I have had a hankering to use it as an off-hand weapon ever since reading the Eberron Novel Bound by Iron. In it the Karrnathi Paladin Cimozjen wields a Longsword in his primary hand and a Quarterstaff in his off-hand. I loved it and wanted to make a character like him (which I attempted here but not to much success (I need to heavily re-work the build).
Wing Chung Kung Fu was invented...
I learned the history of Wing Chun, and Yip Man role especially, a year before taking those seminars. Hey wait... that means I was 16 when I took that clinic in the city.
William Cheung was also a student of Yip Man's. How very cool. :) Small world, eh?
Wing Chung Kung Fu was invented...I learned the history of Wing Chun, and Yip Man role especially, a year before taking those seminars. Hey wait... that means I was 16 when I took that clinic in the city.
William Cheung was also a student of Yip Man's. How very cool. :) Small world, eh?
Technically speaking, Wing Chun is an exceptionally small world. (as Far as I know) there is only one way to learn Wing Chun in the United States and that as a direct linage student from Yip Man.
Did you Know Bruce Lee was a student of Yip Mans (Wing chun was the style bruce lee came to the US with before developing Jeet Kun Do) and that he didn't even know very much of the style ( Bruce Lee was a very poor student with, little or no focus) which means he pretty much developed Jeet Kun Do on his own with hardly any influence from Traditional Kung Fu at all. This fact has lead to alot of seculation that Jeet Kun Do is only a movie martial art.Obviously, a hotly debated topic.
As For knowing Kung Fu (in real life) and what I would do to change the monk, they are hardly related topics (kung fu vs game design)
But as far as my opinion, I have stated several things:
1) Weapons, keep them relevenat for all 20 levels.
How?
Damage progression:
1) give monks +1d4 dice on ALL attacks at first level (that means 1d4 in hand to hand and +1d4 with weapons. AS the monk damage progresses, make it +1d4+1, then +1d4+2, then +1d6+1,then +2, then d8, d8+1 d8+2 and so on.
Why? anyone is MORE deadly with a weapon, than without, but a martial artist will always be able to BE deadly without, however low level monks, no all THAT deadly.
2) Monk AC Progression is weak either let them have shields, or better natural AC.
Revamp weapon proficencies (get rid of all those iron arrows and sai junk)
Monks will learn to use the weapons they have AVAILABLE, not import strange ones.
Where would monks GET these weird weapons from? Not the corner market. With the advent that monks can come from any race now (can anyone picture a gnome monk?) You can hardly say the fantasy monk is "oriental" anymore.
I have ALOT of Ideas for what they should be able to do at 11th level and above and non of the things they have now are worth the paper they are printed on.
Now, for the answer, doI play a monk?
My first character ever was a monk (1e) and I had NO idea what I was doing back then ( I think I was 11) as my monk's weapon was a morningstar.
I play tested a Beta Monk about 1 month ago, he was half orc anda melee tank (at low level) he got killed before he hit 4th level.
Right nowIm play testing a beta fighter at 7th level who Im starting to get bored with.
Last night (in preparation for the next game Im going to run on thursday) I made a drow monk NPC to see how many PCs I can kill off on Thursday (muaahaha), actually Beta has made PCs really strong, so I doubt they will die (came close on sunday to a TPK though)
I am thinking of chaging the monk class as I outlined above to see how it will go. But, actually I believe Jason WILL revamp the monk, and to prevent myself from being disappointed bty the differences between my own version and his, Ill just wait until August so I can use the Pathfinder monk, which Im sure will be good (except Im doubting Jason will drop all those corny monk exotic weapons)
(ever seen a karate staff kata competition?
A staff should be finessable if used as a double weapon
counting both ends as ligth weapons
you still need two weapon figthing anyways
That's because the staff type they use isn't a "quarterstaff" it is a "bo staff" with about half the weight per foot, and typically 2 feet shorter.
As another (actually former) Aikidoka, I'd like to weigh in and say that a "jo" staff is certainly finessable and a "bo" staff, or iron shod English quarter staff is definitely not. It's the difference between a pool queue (shorter than the wielders chin) and a flag pole (over their head.) Granted, a "kung-fu" genius can finesse a step ladder (thank you Jackie Chan!) Makes me want a "finesse anything" feat.
That said, the jo in some Aikdio waza/taigi is really just a stand-in for a yari, naginata or for a no-dachi, depending on the waza. Most of the individual elements, like joden no kamae, are standard spear fighting techniques. Yes, some of the temple strikes could incapacitate someone, but that's incidental. Of course, half of my sensai would disagree with this post entirely, as the jo is really a tool to help the aikidoka understand ma'ai, how ki "flows".
As an aside, Aikido is, in my humble (4 years) experience, only dex based in that you really, really need the initiative ("to be 'first'") to really make many techniques effective, for example, anything requiring atemi, or some of the "no touch" throws, such as the kokyonage techniques. Iriminage techniques also fall into this category. You can't force iriminage on a physically stronger opponent who has his/her center.
Arm bars, joint locks, etc don't require a whole lot of manual dexterity. If you can twist open a pickle jar, you can apply sankyo to some hapless uke. There tends to be a strong philosophical component, but aikido, judo and jujitsu are all close cousins, and can all be "effective". A hip throw is a hip throw is a hip throw.
That's because the staff type they use isn't a "quarterstaff" it is a "bo staff" with about half the weight per foot, and typically 2 feet shorter.(ever seen a karate staff kata competition?
A staff should be finessable if used as a double weapon
counting both ends as ligth weapons
you still need two weapon figthing anyways
Thanks for the reply
your rigth there is a difference bewteen the bo ,jo or qwarter..staffin weigth and length but still the qwarterstaff was used mainly to disarm,deflect,trip or keep a distance not to blow heads off
it doesn't do 1D12 X3 on a crit
in Pathfinder if you hold a qwarterstaff
- 1 handed you can do one attack with full strength bonus
-with both hands 1 attack at 1+1/2 your strenght bonus
-With to weapon figthing you can make 1 attack at full strength
and 1 off-hand attack at half strenght bonus
even with all its versatility do you see many figthers use the staff ?
now make it finessable (used as a double weapon) it would become an eaven les powerfull weapon since it would deal half strength bonus to damage on both ends (considering both ends as ligth weapons)
so those less powerfull figthers or characters would get:
-a decent chance to hit with low damage output and good reach
If you take a smaller qwarterstaff 1D4/1D4 would you acept it as a finessable weapon for a medium character
|
|
S
e
o
n
i
We starting to get some where now... the quarter staff should be as is. but adding different types (jo, bo, ba, fe, tt...) and making them behave differently so one could finesse with one etc would be cool. I have been wanting to play a monk/sorcerer that fought with a staff but the penalties using it for two attack seem to harsh.
S
e
o
n
iWe starting to get some where now... the quarter staff should be as is. but adding different types (jo, bo, ba, fe, tt...) and making them behave differently so one could finesse with one etc would be cool. I have been wanting to play a monk/sorcerer that fought with a staff but the penalties using it for two attack seem to harsh.
the monk can use a qwarterstaff with flurry of blows
with no penality and add full strength damage on both endsyou have only the same penality as flurry of blows
(no two weapon figthing needed)
a finessable qwarterstaff doing 1D4-1D4 with 10 foot reach is still better than a regular qwarterstaff non finessable for your type of built (i have to check the rules for smaller weapons)
Raw seems clear, not finessable.
I would like to see a change to allow both quarterstaff and spear (standard spear - not the long spear with reach) to be used as double weapons - but with specific rules that when used as double weapons to be 2 x light weapons and therefore finessable but including 1/2 damage
I'd also allow staffs and spears to break the rule for double weapons needing an enchantment each end - that IMHO should make the spear / staff become much more of an adventurers weapon than current as it becomes cheap to make versatile....
so either
2 handed weapon, damage bonus x 1.5 (traditonal brute force approach)
or
double weapon attacks x2, damage bonus x 0.5, both attacks finessable (martial arts style precison attacks)
seems a much better approach with the added benefit that you end up with simpler attack sequence / damage for the double weapon style
so keeps flavour options, follows standard rules, simplifies dice rolling..
i'm seriously tempted to adopt this as a house rule if no change is made between beta and final
Does any body have the opportunity to try this aproach for this weekend and repport back monday
that would be cool
just for fun european qwarterstaff
Britich qwarterstaff association
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RhMfnvwzRpY&feature=relatedhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AnhNvfy3Oqw&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o0y8wIYTmXk&feature=related
For the record, those are all halfstaff techniques, and short staffs around 6' at that. The quarterstaff technique is more like a spear. Think "battering ram." For strikes you have weight, leverage, and all the strength of the torso and hips, so short quick movements are enough. Big, sweeping moves are cinematic but not practical except as a follow-through from something that leaves your opponent vulnerable.
Thanks for the reply
your rigth there is a difference bewteen the bo ,jo or qwarter..staff
in weigth and length but still the qwarterstaff was used mainly to disarm,deflect,trip or keep a distance not to blow heads off
it doesn't do 1D12 X3 on a critin Pathfinder if you hold a qwarterstaff
- 1 handed you can do one attack with full strength bonus
-with both hands 1 attack at 1+1/2 your strenght bonus
-With to weapon figthing you can make 1 attack at full strength
and 1 off-hand attack at half strenght bonus...If you take a smaller qwarterstaff 1D4/1D4 would you acept it as a finessable weapon for a medium character
No, I'm saying that the quarterstaff described in Pathfinder isn't a real English quarterstaff either. And somebody mentioned a real quarterstaff would be iron-shod; that is called a tipstaff. It is slower but has obvious advantages.
The real quarterstaff, even a shorter 6' type, you can't use practically one-handed. It would be too slow and too weak powered predominantly by the forearm. Unlike a short spear you don't have a sharp part to threaten an opponent who tries to knock it aside and step through.
Used halfstaff, both ends would qualify as a two-handed weapon, because it is a two handed weapon. You move it with both hands and with the body. It would do less damage (shorter moment arm) but still would get 1.5 bonus.
In the real world giving up the length advantage isn't worth it: double weaker attacks while your opponent can reach you vs single attacks with the opponent out of range. Having 1-2 foot greater weapon reach lets you get the equivalent of AoO whenever the opponent tries to step up to get you.
d20 mechanics are gimped, and making the q-staff work properly would break the system.
...If you take a smaller qwarterstaff 1D4/1D4 would you acept it as a finessable weapon for a medium character
I ment thinner qwarterstaff doing less damage not shorter
In dnd they woud keep the same reach
i'm trying to see where it would brake game mechanics
here in quebec there are many combat games like baffle
weapons with soft ends .the polearm is popular because of its reach
there are a lot of people from europe that come to play these games
i'll ask some friends if the staff is also popular and the prefered length