Ok, only spellcasters can cast it (duh!).
It can only be cast on the spellcaster themselves.
So a spellcaster that casts it can't cast spells.
What the hell!
Why would a spellcaster gimp themselves by casting an antimagic field on themselves? "Hey look at me, I'm a wizard with Xd4 hps and X/2 BA, come and kill me with your sharp mundane pieces of metal."
What the hell am I missing? Can you stand in it and cast spells that originate outside of it? Like summoning a monster outside of the range of the field? Can you cast a fireball on yourself and the area outside the field still show up? What the hell is up with the spell? Somebody explain it to me!
Ok, only spellcasters can cast it (duh!).
It can only be cast on the spellcaster themselves.
So a spellcaster that casts it can't cast spells.
What the hell!Why would a spellcaster gimp themselves by casting an antimagic field on themselves? "Hey look at me, I'm a wizard with Xd4 hps and X/2 BA, come and kill me with your sharp mundane pieces of metal."
What the hell am I missing? Can you stand in it and cast spells that originate outside of it? Like summoning a monster outside of the range of the field? Can you cast a fireball on yourself and the area outside the field still show up? What the hell is up with the spell? Somebody explain it to me!
Well ... one potential use of it is via project image alongside a suitably malevolent heavy-hitter or two to tear up the party within a suitable bottleneck.
Ok, only spellcasters can cast it (duh!).
It can only be cast on the spellcaster themselves.
So a spellcaster that casts it can't cast spells.
What the hell!Why would a spellcaster gimp themselves by casting an antimagic field on themselves? "Hey look at me, I'm a wizard with Xd4 hps and X/2 BA, come and kill me with your sharp mundane pieces of metal."
What the hell am I missing? Can you stand in it and cast spells that originate outside of it? Like summoning a monster outside of the range of the field? Can you cast a fireball on yourself and the area outside the field still show up? What the hell is up with the spell? Somebody explain it to me!
You cast antimagic shell into a ring of spell storing and give it to either a natural flyer who specialises in ranged combat (missiles or spiked chain) or give it to a monk and send them in to make life hell for the enemy casters.
Edit:
And as Order of the Stick recently pointed out, a dragon with an antimagic shell on itself is still a dragon....
This is correct.
IMO the whole minor globe of invulnerability, globe of invulnerabilty and anti magic shell type spells need some work
Ok, only spellcasters can cast it (duh!).
It can only be cast on the spellcaster themselves.
So a spellcaster that casts it can't cast spells.
What the hell!Why would a spellcaster gimp themselves by casting an antimagic field on themselves? "Hey look at me, I'm a wizard with Xd4 hps and X/2 BA, come and kill me with your sharp mundane pieces of metal."
What the hell am I missing? Can you stand in it and cast spells that originate outside of it? Like summoning a monster outside of the range of the field? Can you cast a fireball on yourself and the area outside the field still show up? What the hell is up with the spell? Somebody explain it to me!
You cast antimagic shell into a ring of spell storing and give it to either a natural flyer who specialises in ranged combat (missiles or spiked chain) or give it to a monk and send them in to make life hell for the enemy casters.
Edit:
And as Order of the Stick recently pointed out, a dragon with an antimagic shell on itself is still a dragon....
It will also stop beholder eye ray volleys and 24d12+48 damage dragon breath weapons ;)
also useful when your group at level 12 is facing off against a fully buffed evil cleric 16 for another example.
It will also stop beholder eye ray volleys and 24d12+48 damage dragon breath weapons ;)
also useful when your group at level 12 is facing off against a fully buffed evil cleric 16 for another example.
Still seems pretty suicidal for the wizard casting it.
Still seems pretty suicidal for the wizard casting it.It will also stop beholder eye ray volleys and 24d12+48 damage dragon breath weapons ;)
also useful when your group at level 12 is facing off against a fully buffed evil cleric 16 for another example.
It's always been more of a group tactic spell then a solo wizard 'maniacal cackle' spell. I've seen it used a decent bit in my years, but it's always been a defensive/reactive/readied thing.
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I see it as a spell that can turn the wizard into a veritable magic shield, much as the fighter was the meat shield. You only use it against a more powerful spellcaster when you have some high level fighter/barbarian/ranger/paladin. So, when the magic is turned off, your foe ceases to be a powerful wizard while you... You still have a big muscly guy standing right beside you.
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I found a homebrew item that was very interesting. They were stones that created an anti-magic field when they were broken. They were expensive, difficult to make (you would only get about 3 out of every dozen you attempted to make), and very fragile, but having an anti-magic field that you can throw is extremely helpful
Creative Director
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It's also really helpful when you're faced with some sort of magical trap or barrier, like a symbol of death or a wall of fire. Throw up the antimagic and your group can walk through safely. Alternatively, it also works really well as a way to stop a villain from escaping via teleport once you break him down; the wizard casts antimagic and locks him in while his allies then go in and grab him. It's also a handy way to help characters who are suffering from long-term debilitating magical effects. And since it affects supernatural abilities, if your group's facing, say, a medusa, you can use antimagic to gain immunity to her petrification gaze and just run in and chop her up. And faced with a dragon doing the standard fly over every 1d4 rounds and blast you with magic when for whatever reason you can't fly after him, antimagic works great to stop those breath weapons. Cast antimagic when your group's fighting a lich, and suddenly all you need is someone with a midling grapple check to come in and sit on the lich while you decide what to do with him.
And so on.
Don't forget about the "Use Magic Device" skill. A rogue can sneak around and then use it to read off a scroll of anti-magic field when he is in a good location.
while you decide what to do with him.
I suggest fire.
I like the antimagic field spell. Its a great tactical weapon. Like using nn EMP device, all of the sudden all the electronics don't work and low-tech has a chance of winning.
But what I don't get are "dead magic" zones. I mean you just made a class worthless. What fun is that? I mean there are not "can't swing a dumb metal stick" zones. While a rogue can't sneak attack certain opponents, there aren't any "no sneak attack" zones. Or how about zones where you have no connection to your god or to nature?
I personally hate the anti-magic feild, they should really just put in the description "anyone in this field who isn't a martial characte or skill monkey (and even them too in some cases) loses the benifits of their gear and class features"
It's like falling...except you don't need to be a paladin
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An anti-magic field is to a spellcaster what a rust monster is to a fighter. Or undead to a rogue. It'd be stupid to have magic in a game without some sort of anti-magic (even if it is technically created by magic). Without the aid of an anti-magic field (perhaps made permanent in an area through some magcial workings of some sort) it would be nigh impossible to imprison a mid to high level spellcaster of any sort.
I could even see a dead magic zone as a place where they would make an entire compound made for the sole reason of imprisoning rogue spellcasters. Or a villain that doesn't want to waste the time to protect himself from scrying, so he just hides in a dead magic zone. A heavily fortified position where magic is useless? What more could a warlord want?
I might point out that the radius on antimagic field is only 10 ft. So basically a mage has to be right on top of whatever it is he is trying to disable. Seems pretty bad idea for most mages. "Ha ha, I stopped the spellcaster ... with a longsword ... and medium armor and ... oh crap he is a duskblade!" Not to mention how much other casters in the party are going to dislike it. And guess what, you get knocked unconscious and now the party cleric can't heal you, smooth move McFly.
Just seems like it would be better if you could cast it on someone or something else besides you, or that your spells weren't effected by it. As it is, I don't think I've ever seen it used in game play because of lame it is. Of course I don't play with people that make out elaborate battle plans, so maybe that is the deal, maybe it is more of a gamist spell (which there is nothing wrong with).
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RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16
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But what I don't get are "dead magic" zones. I mean you just made a class worthless. What fun is that?
A great deal of fun.
I mean there are not "can't swing a dumb metal stick" zones. While a rogue can't sneak attack certain opponents, there aren't any "no sneak attack" zones. Or how about zones where you have no connection to your god or to nature?
That would be a great idea. (I'd call underwater a "can't swing a dumb metal stick" zone.) (I believe "The Gamers: Dorkness Rising" addressed the no-divine-connection issue.)
Seriously, any of these might come up in a game. The PCs should discuss their strategy (and perhaps even tactics) beforehand.
I'll do one better! If you play an ArchMage you can use mastery of shaping ability when you cast the spell and put a hole where you stand so everyone else around you gets shut off while your fine!!! TA DAH!!!
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I'll do one better! If you play an ArchMage you can use mastery of shaping ability when you cast the spell and put a hole where you stand so everyone else around you gets shut off while your fine!!! TA DAH!!!
Well, you could cast spells, but only things that have a range of personal or touch. Try to shoot a ray through and you'll just end up feeling stupid
I'll do one better! If you play an ArchMage you can use mastery of shaping ability when you cast the spell and put a hole where you stand so everyone else around you gets shut off while your fine!!! TA DAH!!!Well, you could cast spells, but only things that have a range of personal or touch. Try to shoot a ray through and you'll just end up feeling stupid.
True - but spells that do not generate the effect by a direct emission (most direct damage spells for example) are still applicable unless the field shuts down line-of-effect. So, presuming the latter is NOT applicable, said archmage can pepper foes with Maze, Forcecage, Polymorph Any Object, etc.
True - but spells that do not generate the effect by a direct emission (most direct damage spells for example) are still applicable unless the field shuts down line-of-effect. So, presuming the latter is NOT applicable, said archmage can pepper foes with Maze, Forcecage, Polymorph Any Object, etc.I'll do one better! If you play an ArchMage you can use mastery of shaping ability when you cast the spell and put a hole where you stand so everyone else around you gets shut off while your fine!!! TA DAH!!!Well, you could cast spells, but only things that have a range of personal or touch. Try to shoot a ray through and you'll just end up feeling stupid.
Not to mention all those orb spells, being instant conjuration spells they do not get canceled by the field.
Don't forget that if you have already summoned monsters before you cast antimagic field you can still direct them (as long as they stay outside of the field) which means you can avoid your opponent's magic and still have your creatures tear them up.
Not to mention all those orb spells, being instant conjuration spells they do not get canceled by the field.True - but spells that do not generate the effect by a direct emission (most direct damage spells for example) are still applicable unless the field shuts down line-of-effect. So, presuming the latter is NOT applicable, said archmage can pepper foes with Maze, Forcecage, Polymorph Any Object, etc.I'll do one better! If you play an ArchMage you can use mastery of shaping ability when you cast the spell and put a hole where you stand so everyone else around you gets shut off while your fine!!! TA DAH!!!Well, you could cast spells, but only things that have a range of personal or touch. Try to shoot a ray through and you'll just end up feeling stupid.
No, I would argue otherwise on general principle - the orb is thrown through the field, *poufing* out as it hits the interior edge of the field. Last I heard, the orbs cannot be lobbed out on a very steep indirect fire trajectory, so, "no orbs for you!".
Antimagic Field does not discriminate based on allowable spell resistance...
Not to mention all those orb spells, being instant conjuration spells they do not get canceled by the field.No, I would argue otherwise on general principle - the orb is thrown through the field, *poufing* out as it hits the interior edge of the field. Last I heard, the orbs cannot be lobbed out on a very steep indirect fire trajectory, so, "no orbs for you!".
Antimagic Field does not discriminate based on allowable spell resistance...
(The effects of instantaneous conjurations are not affected by an antimagic field because the conjuration itself is no longer in effect, only its result.)
*emphasis mine
Orb of ...
Conjuration (Creation)...
Duration: Instantaneous
...
Nope, the orbs are not effected by the antimagic field if tossed through them. Try to cast them within the area of effect, sure they won't work, but tossed through is fine.
RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
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Well there's the ultimate anti-anti-magic shell spell. Transform Boulder to Pebble.
Transmutation
Level: Drd 4, Sor/Wiz 4
Components: V, S, F
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: 50 ft.
Targets: One boulder/level, all of which must be no larger than a 10-ft. cube
Area: Boulders within a 50-ft.-radius spread, centered on you
Duration: Permanent; see text (D)
Saving Throw: None (object)
Spell Resistance: No (object)
This spell enables you to change one boulder per caster level into a miniscule pebble no larger than 1-inch in size. Each boulder to be affected must be within a 50-ft.-radius around you, and none can be larger than a 10-ft. cube. Boulders that are transmuted remain that way until dispelled and each radiates magic if detected for.
This spell has no effect on creatures constructed of stone, nor can it be used to alter statues, gemstones, or other such items.
Focus: The boulder(s) to be affected
Famous last words "Why is that wizard throwing pebbles at m-*crunch*"
An anti-magic field is to a spellcaster what a rust monster is to a fighter. Or undead to a rogue. It'd be stupid to have magic in a game without some sort of anti-magic (even if it is technically created by magic). Without the aid of an anti-magic field (perhaps made permanent in an area through some magcial workings of some sort) it would be nigh impossible to imprison a mid to high level spellcaster of any sort.
I could even see a dead magic zone as a place where they would make an entire compound made for the sole reason of imprisoning rogue spellcasters. Or a villain that doesn't want to waste the time to protect himself from scrying, so he just hides in a dead magic zone. A heavily fortified position where magic is useless? What more could a warlord want?
Actually throw a rustmonster at your fighter or an anti-magic field at your spellcasters, see how much they enjoy it. I'm all for a weakness, but taking away your class features? A good DM should work with the players abilities, not work around them
Actually throw a rustmonster at your fighter or an anti-magic field at your spellcasters, see how much they enjoy it. I'm all for a weakness, but taking away your class features? A good DM should work with the players abilities, not work around themAn anti-magic field is to a spellcaster what a rust monster is to a fighter. Or undead to a rogue. It'd be stupid to have magic in a game without some sort of anti-magic (even if it is technically created by magic). Without the aid of an anti-magic field (perhaps made permanent in an area through some magcial workings of some sort) it would be nigh impossible to imprison a mid to high level spellcaster of any sort.
I could even see a dead magic zone as a place where they would make an entire compound made for the sole reason of imprisoning rogue spellcasters. Or a villain that doesn't want to waste the time to protect himself from scrying, so he just hides in a dead magic zone. A heavily fortified position where magic is useless? What more could a warlord want?
Having it show up every fight and you are right. If it is once in a while to provide a challenge for them and it's just fine. In my years GMing I've thrown Rust Monsters, Anti-Magic Fields, Negative Levels, crazy Ability Damage, Disenchanters, thieves which take their items and any number of other things that make life damn difficult for my players. As long as it is done right it makes the game better, not worse.
In a previous campaign one encounter the players loved, but which did get me called many names, was when they met some fairies while camped. The fairies decided that the party need a good nights rest, so they magically put the party to sleep. Then they took off all their gear, including their rings of sustenance, put blankets over them, combed their hair, left food out, etc. The party suddenly went "oh crap, what are we going to do, only one person actually brought food."
Anti-magic field and similar effects shouldn't be used often, but they do have a legitimate part to play in the game and can be a lot of fun.
Not to mention all those orb spells, being instant conjuration spells they do not get canceled by the field.No, I would argue otherwise on general principle - the orb is thrown through the field, *poufing* out as it hits the interior edge of the field. Last I heard, the orbs cannot be lobbed out on a very steep indirect fire trajectory, so, "no orbs for you!".
Antimagic Field does not discriminate based on allowable spell resistance...
(The effects of instantaneous conjurations are not affected by an antimagic field because the conjuration itself is no longer in effect, only its result.)*emphasis mine
Nope, the orbs are not effected by the antimagic field if tossed through them. Try to cast them within the area of effect, sure they won't work, but tossed through is fine.
Orb of ...
Conjuration (Creation)...
Duration: Instantaneous
...
You DO realize that at the time antimagic field was written, the orb spells were not even at issue? The various 'SR doesn't bother me' nonsense spells dealing direct damage with a paltry touch attack, permitting NO other defense - not even spell immunity or greater spell immunity - against them, that were introduced in latter 'vanilla 3.5' strike me as one of the top 5 or 10 worst things to happen to the game. Only the 'globe' spells are proof, but using the 'instantaneous conjuration' write-up, not even globes of invulnerability stop them as written.
The orb itself IS a magical effect, not a blob of acid (as is created by an acid arrow) - such effects are properly evocations by the game's own definitions. Nor do the orbs persist after creation, which is a definition within the (Creation) subschool of the Conjuration school description as part of an instantaneous conjuration (creation) effect.
"If the spell has an instantaneous duration, the created object or creature is merely assembled through magic. It lasts indefinitely and does not depend on magic for its existence." The orbs do not last indefinitely - they are instantaneous touch attack spells with no actual substance created. Based on the baseline descriptions of the games fundamentals, the orb spells - lesser and greater - are properly classified as Evocation spells (and thus should permit spell resistance). Examples of Conjuration (Creation) spells with an instantaneous duration include
- wall of iron (permanent once created)
- wall of stone (permanent once created)
- create water (permanent once created or until it evaporates)
- and gate - although based on the spell description it is an instantaneous spell only when it is used as a (Calling) spell.
If anything, the orbs violate one of the tenants of the Conjuration school - the only 'core' Conjuration spells that are not durational in nature are instantaneous-permanent spells: ones that create something 'real' (water or other physical materials like the walls) or are classified as (Healing) spells, repairing damage and other effects previously dealt to living creatures.
Whereas "Evocation spells manipulate energy or tap an unseen source of power to produce a desired end. In effect, they create something out of nothing." This precisely matches what the various orb spells do - create energy out of nothing dealing damage once, plus the very secondary effects attached to the 4th level orbs. The lesser orbs do not even have the poor disguise of a minor secondary resistable effect to justify being classified as a conjuration (creation) effect. Bluntly, they were written the way they are, as far as I can tell, to overpower the Conjuration school and/or to make Warmages "cooler" than sorcerers and wizards.
Out of ALL the force effect spells in the PF Beta, *only* mage armor is classified as a Conjuration effect. It properly should not be, since its counterpart shield is an abjuration effect and both fulfill the function of abjurative spells. The orb of force, not counting the above reasons, should be classified as an Evocation spell as well, as it would be unique (or close enough to it as not to matter) among ALL [Force] spells in being classified as a Conjuration (Creation) spell. All other [Force] spells to my knowledge are correctly classified asides from the one orb of force.
YMMV of course. :)
An anti-magic field and a great many Mooks with reach weapons and crossbows and the like can make for a very bad day for PC party. Loosing all your spell casting and magic gear suddenly makes you very vaunrable to large numbers of monsters that would overwise be mostly irrelivant to you.
Necro: I know it is a concept not commonly held in DnD, but there is an old cyberpunk saying 'If all else fails, take their stuff.' There is nothing wrong with occationally striking at the core of a characters power. It is a massively common trope in fact. You need only look to comic books to find numerous examples of heros having to deal with the world without their powers. The Heroes journey contains an element based around this kind of set back.
It makes perfect sense that his kind of magic would exist, and anti-magic andthe like is often an element of stories about magic. It also makes logical sense that some villains would make use of exactly this sort of power on occations it is also one of those occations when Melee classes really get to shine.
You say 'it isn't fun.' But i disagree, i quiet enjoy the occational occurence of such things as player and as a DM.
You DO realize that at the time antimagic field was written, the orb spells were not even at issue?
You DO realize that at the time antimagic field was written, acid splash was already in the game, the spell that the orbs are all based on. An instantaneous conjuration [creation] spell not an evocation.
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Not to mention all those orb spells, being instant conjuration spells they do not get canceled by the field.No, I would argue otherwise on general principle - the orb is thrown through the field, *poufing* out as it hits the interior edge of the field. Last I heard, the orbs cannot be lobbed out on a very steep indirect fire trajectory, so, "no orbs for you!".
Antimagic Field does not discriminate based on allowable spell resistance...
(The effects of instantaneous conjurations are not affected by an antimagic field because the conjuration itself is no longer in effect, only its result.)*emphasis mine
Nope, the orbs are not effected by the antimagic field if tossed through them. Try to cast them within the area of effect, sure they won't work, but tossed through is fine.
Orb of ...
Conjuration (Creation)...
Duration: Instantaneous
...You DO realize that at the time antimagic field was written, the orb spells were not even at issue? The various 'SR doesn't bother me' nonsense spells dealing direct damage with a paltry touch attack, permitting NO other defense - not even spell immunity or greater spell immunity - against them, that were introduced in latter 'vanilla 3.5' strike me as one of the top 5 or 10 worst things to happen to the game. Only the 'globe' spells are proof, but using the 'instantaneous conjuration' write-up, not even globes of invulnerability stop them as written.
The orb itself IS a magical effect, not a blob of acid (as is created by an acid arrow) - such effects are properly evocations by the game's own definitions. Nor do the orbs persist after creation, which is a definition within the (Creation) subschool of the Conjuration school description as part of an instantaneous conjuration (creation) effect.
"If the spell has an...
I agree, the Orb spells are nothing but a work around for a game mechanic that was put in place to help limit magic power. I wish they were never introduced because they are altogether better at doing evocation job than evocation. Orbs suck.
actually anti-magic field was around back in 1st edition, while acid splash wasn't.
actually anti-magic field was around back in 1st edition, while acid splash wasn't.
Is this the 1st edition part of the boards? I must have made a mistake, I thought we were talking about 3.5.
Yes I realize anti-magic shell - now field - has been around a long, long, LONG time. It is - well, was a "sovereign defense" against magic along with almost everything else - including psionics and excluding old-fashioned pummelling, stabbing and skewering - that should not be circumvented just because some one didn't think things through properly when writing the orb spells. As far as I am concerned, acid splash is an Evocation spell, not a Conjuration (Creation) spell, from the same logic as outlined above. I do NOT have a problem with dropping a wall of iron on some one in an anti-magic field, after all, it is permanent once created. The trick is getting one to fall over the way you want it to, which is what simulacrum are for in large numbers. Queen Ileosa can wreck havoc with that spell and her minion-simulacra.
Ah, the good ol' days of yesteryore, where magical fountains could give you goodies or give you cooties (weal or woe had all kinds of meaning), where ancient dragons were less feared than weaker energy-draining undead, treasure was to be had by the wagonload and the named magic weapons were truly awesome.
In 3e, I think the school of Conjuration has its place as the means by which one brings into being critters, servitors, matter and the like. Evocation is what drops the nukes - I am mystified about fire seeds though, as it technically evokes the fire into a storage medium that is temporary, albiet not nearly so short-lived as a delayed blast fireball.
Anyhoo, ramble ramble blather blather on my end. ^_^
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What about that Orb of Cold? What is "Cold" anyways? How can you create cold and shape it into an orb? Or better yet, Orb of Sound. That is a weird thing to summon.
A better question would be, why would an Archmage capable of shaping an anti-magic shell stoop to using Orb spells? Why not Horrid Wilting? Or something more useful than a stupid orb. What you guys are arguing over is something hypothetical that will probably never happen in your games, so it doesn't really need to be such a heated debate. So get along guys.
-Your Friendly Neighborhood Hunter Of The Dusk
Somebody explain it to me!I think Mr. Berlew sums it up nicely.
'nuff said.
Yup, useful for dragons and other beings who can use magic and who are extremely dangerous without it.
What about that Orb of Cold? What is "Cold" anyways? How can you create cold and shape it into an orb? Or better yet, Orb of Sound. That is a weird thing to summon.
A better question would be, why would an Archmage capable of shaping an anti-magic shell stoop to using Orb spells? Why not Horrid Wilting? Or something more useful than a stupid orb. What you guys are arguing over is something hypothetical that will probably never happen in your games, so it doesn't really need to be such a heated debate. So get along guys.
-Your Friendly Neighborhood Hunter Of The Dusk
Actually the sound I can see somewhat. After all Sound is just vibrations in the air, so that would just be a focused shockwave.
I do have to agree that except for the orb of acid they shouldn't be conjuration effects. The orb of acid is just an upgunned melf's acid arrow. If they really wanted them to be conjuration effects it should have been stuff like Orb of Magma and Orb of Liquid Nitrogen. Then they could have gotten into really interesting effects, like it sticking to you or making parts break off. Still I have to admit that I am probably too lazy to rewrite the spells for my campaign.
Antimagic field also reduces most Beholders from the status of a potential mid-level TPK machine of death-dealing awe to a rather ineffectual bite attack....
Even without magic, most mid-level parties can bring a solitary beholder down with crossbow bolts if they don't need to worry about the eye rays.
Against a Beholder it's more of evening the odds, since the Beholder's central eye shuts down the party's magic.
Yup, useful for dragons and other beings who can use magic and who are extremely dangerous without it.Somebody explain it to me!I think Mr. Berlew sums it up nicely.
'nuff said.
Amen :)
In a previous campaign one encounter the players loved, but which did get me called many names, was when they met some fairies while camped. The fairies decided that the party need a good nights rest, so they magically put the party to sleep. Then they took off all their gear, including their rings of sustenance, put blankets over them, combed their hair, left food out, etc. The party suddenly went "oh crap, what are we going to do, only one person actually brought food."
Noted for future reference. Thank you >:D
What about that Orb of Cold? What is "Cold" anyways? How can you create cold and shape it into an orb? Or better yet, Orb of Sound. That is a weird thing to summon.
A better question would be, why would an Archmage capable of shaping an anti-magic shell stoop to using Orb spells? Why not Horrid Wilting? Or something more useful than a stupid orb. What you guys are arguing over is something hypothetical that will probably never happen in your games, so it doesn't really need to be such a heated debate. So get along guys.
-Your Friendly Neighborhood Hunter Of The Dusk
Actually the sound I can see somewhat. After all Sound is just vibrations in the air, so that would just be a focused shockwave.
I do have to agree that except for the orb of acid they shouldn't be conjuration effects. The orb of acid is just an upgunned melf's acid arrow. If they really wanted them to be conjuration effects it should have been stuff like Orb of Magma and Orb of Liquid Nitrogen. Then they could have gotten into really interesting effects, like it sticking to you or making parts break off. Still I have to admit that I am probably too lazy to rewrite the spells for my campaign.
Actually Cap'n, that'd probably be pretty easy, and (for me at least) far easier to swallow as a series of spells if they WERE re-tooled acid arrow spells. The Lesser Orbs of Cold, Electricity, Fire and Sonic can all be 'variants' of the standard acid arrow spell for their spell level, dubbed [energy] arrow for shorthand.
The base-line acid arrow spell deals, at 18th level, 14d4 acid damage over the course of the initial impact and six subsequent rounds. This is effectively equivalent to the 10 dice damage cap prescribed to 2nd level arcane spells. I would structure the 4th level arcane [Improved Energy Arrow] spells as dealing 4d6 energy damage on impact plus continuing energy damage every 3 full caster levels (capping at 6 rounds' continuing damage at 18th level). While this technically exceeds the nominal damage cap of 15 dice for a 4th level spell, it takes an 18th level arcane caster to get the most out of the base line spell, and it is reliably stopped by the appropriate energy resistance at a value of 20 or higher at base values. With enough metamagic it could punch through energy resistance 30, but Empowering such energy arrows will chew up 6th level arcane spell slots PDQ.
The orb of force is perhaps best discarded altogether, or replaced by an overhauled version of the original spell (see below).
Orb of Force
Evocation [Force]
Level: Sorcerer/Wizard 4, Warmage 4
Components: V, S
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Medium (100 ft. + [10 ft. x CL])
Effect: One orb of force
Duration: Instantaneous
Saving Throw: None
Spell Resistance: Yes
You evoke and throw a magical orb of force that streaks from your manipulative appendage towards the target. You must succeed on a ranged touch attack roll to hit your target with the orb. The orb deals 1d6 points of damage per caster level (maximum of 12d6).
In a previous campaign one encounter the players loved, but which did get me called many names, was when they met some fairies while camped. The fairies decided that the party need a good nights rest, so they magically put the party to sleep. Then they took off all their gear, including their rings of sustenance, put blankets over them, combed their hair, left food out, etc. The party suddenly went "oh crap, what are we going to do, only one person actually brought food."Noted for future reference. Thank you >:D
Dontcha love stealing stuff from other game systems? ^_^
Wait until he tells you about the "anti-magic zone" a high-level group had to trek through - most of the players were miserable.
In a previous campaign one encounter the players loved, but which did get me called many names, was when they met some fairies while camped. The fairies decided that the party need a good nights rest, so they magically put the party to sleep. Then they took off all their gear, including their rings of sustenance, put blankets over them, combed their hair, left food out, etc. The party suddenly went "oh crap, what are we going to do, only one person actually brought food."Noted for future reference. Thank you >:D
Check the Monster Manual 3 I think it is. As I remember it they are called petals and that is their normal behavior. They have a magical sleep power that gets better the more of them work on it. They aren't evil at all, just a nuisance.
Be careful though, elves would be immune to the magic. Fortunately the elf in the party decided that it wasn't mean so he didn't interfere. His ring stayed on of course.
In a previous campaign one encounter the players loved, but which did get me called many names, was when they met some fairies while camped. The fairies decided that the party need a good nights rest, so they magically put the party to sleep. Then they took off all their gear, including their rings of sustenance, put blankets over them, combed their hair, left food out, etc. The party suddenly went "oh crap, what are we going to do, only one person actually brought food."Noted for future reference. Thank you >:DDontcha love stealing stuff from other game systems? ^_^
Wait until he tells you about the "anti-magic zone" a high-level group had to trek through - most of the players were miserable.
Ah yes, I remember that quite well. The party was on a quest for the Regalia of Good and for part of it they had to treck through this many, many miles long artic territory that was all under the effects of an anti-magic field. Sunddenly the 23+ level characters were a lot more worried about things like Rhemorraz and Frost Worms. Of course I did have to give them a few extra HD, but not too many, certainly not nearly as many as I would have had to without the field.
The best fight was with the Frost Worm. It comes out of the snow and attacks the party, tearing into them. The party was having a lot of trouble taking it down. This is until the rogue who had been using the snow for cover stood up and threw 4 flask of alchmist fire into it as a sneak attack. I'm just sitting there going "wha, buha, DAMN IT!!" At 1d6 per flask, plus 11d6 per flask sneak attack, plus the 50% damange increase for cold sub type, and with the sneak attack damage also being fire, well... this critter that was all set to hand the party their a$$es has 2/3 of its HP disappear in 1 attack.
Of course it is at around 2 HP at this point. Then the sorcerer's turn comes up. Now he had been useless this fight and the previous fight, so he has been going over his character sheet looking everywhere for something he can do. So he pulls out his light crossbow that he put on the character sheet when he made it and has not used even once up until now. He takes aim, launches the bolt, watches it strike home thanks to really good die roll, and is surprised as hell when the thing simply explodes! (Remember Frost Worms have deaththrows.) The player is looking shocked and I can only imagine the character's face as he is examining his crossbow. I don't think he ever used it again, but his character always did keep a special place in his heart for that crossbow.
*Pwfft* KABLOOOIE!! Bits and pieces of critter rain down all over the area
"Dude, how come you never used that crossbow before huh? I mean really, holding out on us like that..."
good times ... good times ...
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I agree, as both a player and a DM, situations which are out of the player's comfort zone, while frustrating, can be some of the most fun.
My current group, back at fourth level consisted of my Monk, a Cleric(non-specific), a Druid, a Sorcerer, a Ranger, and a Rogue. We had to fight two yeth hounds. Their DR is 10/Silver. The problem was we were not expecting anything along these lines and didn't have any silvered weapons.
The Ranger and my Monk were the only combat devoted characters of the group. He was an Archery Specialist who carried a shortsword; and my STR bonus was +2 with the option to use a Longbow(thank you, Martial Weapon Proficiency feat!). Each of our maximum damage(sans crit) output was entirely negated by the hound's DR.
The Rogue player is the type to avoid combat at all costs. Yeah, I admit, the class isn't designed for a straight-up fight, but one scratch and she starts running.
The Druid character was designed more as support character and didn't fully understand how powerful the class can be, so he didn't try wildshaping.
The Sorcerer was almost out of spells for the day. No big guns left.
The Cleric was a new player and ended up being the only one to really damage the hounds, through Magic Weapon.
So the strategy quickly turned into "keep the hounds stationary while we slowly chip away at their health with Magic Weapon".
I closed into Melee yeth hound #1 while the Ranger did what he could to keep the second occupied. My plan here was to keep the big puppy focused on me; if it started to leave, AoO trip attempt.
The Druid tried Summon Swarm on YH1 while I was up next to him, and the DM rolled randomly to see who the swarm attacked. It was me. YH1 used its Bay ability to try and scare some of us. I somehow succeeded by Will save while fighting off a swarm of bats. So did everyone else, except the Druid, who promptly ran out of the room screaming. YH1 began to close on the Ranger, but I got up quickly enough and joined back in the fight.
YH2 was eventually dropped, the Ranger managed to Crit with his bow and the Cleric got a few high rolls on damage after that one.
YH1 and my Monk were essentially in wiff city. The few times I did hit him, didn't do any damage, even the max damage roll I made(which I was really proud of, untill I saw he was unharmed). Once it noticed the other party members had finished with its partner and began to come after it, it flew up and left.
DM gave us experience for defeating both, since once the whole party(except the cowardly Rogue and the Panicked Druid) focused on the remaining Yeth Hound, it fled the fight.
Were the creatures out of our league? Not at all, but they were playing to our weaknesses. Without the Cleric, we would have likely not been able to win. At best, it would have been a draw, but more likely, we would have left.
As it has been stated, Anti-Magic isn't cheap unless your DM just likes to throw it at you a lot. It is a valid tactical option with heavy consequences which should be weighed against the advantages. Sometimes it can save your life, sometimes it can get you killed.