I've always wanted to own my own business and there's a distinct lack of a game store around here.
How difficult is it to open/operate a gaming shop?
Is anyone operating one or working in one that has some insight into that line of work?
Aside from the licensing of a shop, finding/renting a location, and stocking it (and deciding what to stock), what are some of the difficulties?
While I don't have any personal experience, from the number of game stores I've seen in my area open and fold within the space of a few years, I'd say tricky at best.
Personally, I've toyed around with this idea before as well... :)
While I don't have any personal experience, from the number of game stores I've seen in my area open and fold within the space of a few years, I'd say tricky at best.
Personally, I've toyed around with this idea before as well... :)
Yeah, I usually catch myself eyeing vacant retail space, figuring out where the game tables and/or shelves would go, and judging how close it is to local fast food places (ie - potential Con hosting suitability).
I doubt I would ever be able to bring it off though. It's a pretty big uphill climb to make it last, from all I have been led to believe.
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My experience is also lacking, but I can say that most of the game shops around here are run almost as hobbies themselves. In other words, the owner has a "real job" and owns a shop because that's what he always wanted to do.
Also, I've gathered that it's a low-margin, niche business. It might be easy to open an LGS, but you'll probably go under if you can't seem to get that "F" in front of it.
-Skeld
I've always wanted to own my own business and there's a distinct lack of a game store around here.
How difficult is it to open/operate a gaming shop?
Is anyone operating one or working in one that has some insight into that line of work?
Aside from the licensing of a shop, finding/renting a location, and stocking it (and deciding what to stock), what are some of the difficulties?
Well, for one thing, getting product from such companies as Games Workshop can be *interesting*...they have harsh demands from independant retailers....also, truly, if you do this...expect NOT to take a salary or any money out of the business for the first one to two years. You'll need that for insulation. I'd suggest networking. Find ways in with local schools..etc to get publicity and sponsor things....teaming with the local comic book shop and trying to form an alliance wouldn't hurt either...
Just a few thoughts...
I've always wanted to own my own business and there's a distinct lack of a game store around here.
How difficult is it to open/operate a gaming shop?
Is anyone operating one or working in one that has some insight into that line of work?
Aside from the licensing of a shop, finding/renting a location, and stocking it (and deciding what to stock), what are some of the difficulties?
While I also have pretty much zero experience in this matter, I would say also rather difficult.
Here in Corvallis, we had a game shop called 'Pegasus'. The service was lousy, the teenagers who ran it clearly had little idea how to run a game shop, and it closed soon after its opening.If you decide to open a gaming shop, then cheers We can always use more freelance businesses.
Also, remember that 9 or 10 new businesses fail in the first year (except pizza places.)
So maybe you should open a Pizza shop first, then install game tables later.
While I also have pretty much zero experience in this matter, I would say also rather difficult.
Here in Corvallis, we had a game shop called 'Pegasus'. The service was lousy, the teenagers who ran it clearly had little idea how to run a game shop, and it closed soon after its opening.
If you decide to open a gaming shop, then cheers We can always use more freelance businesses.
Also, keep in mind...it NEEDS to be run AS A BUSINESS. Not your personal hobby shop. Hire people who will act and behave professionally. DO NOT LOOT YOUR goods as they come in the door. Far too many people see a truly blurred line with something that is their hobby and what a business truly is.
Also, you'll *very* clearly experience an eye opening when you realize just how much discounting products will quickly cut into your bottom line. It's a business. You need to be a business person running it.
Also, remember that 9 or 10 new businesses fail in the first year (except pizza places.)
So maybe you should open a Pizza shop first, then install game tables later.
What a freakin awesome idea!!! OR...start a CHINESE restaurant first!!! I'd prefer that over the pizza :)
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While I don't have any personal experience, from the number of game stores I've seen in my area open and fold within the space of a few years, I'd say tricky at best.
Personally, I've toyed around with this idea before as well... :)
Yeah, I usually catch myself eyeing vacant retail space, figuring out where the game tables and/or shelves would go, and judging how close it is to local fast food places (ie - potential Con hosting suitability).
I doubt I would ever be able to bring it off though. It's a pretty big uphill climb to make it last, from all I have been led to believe.
Yeah, I do the same thing from time to time. The other day I heard an ad run by a local retail center advertising space from 450 sq ft with rent from $350 a month, including utilities . I started to calculate just how many books I would have to sell to break even on that, and could I fit it into my schedule and keep my day job as a teacher. I determined that since I get done with classes at 1pm, I could open the store at 2 pm and keep it open until 9 pm and that would be a good amount of time to be open.
Also, I've gathered that it's a low-margin, niche business. It might be easy to open an LGS, but you'll probably go under if you can't seem to get that "F" in front of it.
Exactly. The one game store that opened in my tiny home town hired a very knowledgable, yet very self-absorbed... 'colleague' of mine to run the counter. They closed the doors within a year.
The other day I heard an ad run by a local retail center advertising space from 450 sq ft with rent from $350 a month, including utilities . I started to calculate just how many books I would have to sell to break even on that, and could I fit it into my schedule and keep my day job as a teacher.
$350 a month?! That seems really low...
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While I also have pretty much zero experience in this matter, I would say also rather difficult.
Here in Corvallis, we had a game shop called 'Pegasus'. The service was lousy, the teenagers who ran it clearly had little idea how to run a game shop, and it closed soon after its opening.
If you decide to open a gaming shop, then cheers We can always use more freelance businesses.Also, keep in mind...it NEEDS to be run AS A BUSINESS. Not your personal hobby shop. Hire people who will act and behave professionally. DO NOT LOOT YOUR goods as they come in the door. Far too many people see a truly blurred line with something that is their hobby and what a business truly is.
Also, you'll *very* clearly experience an eye opening when you realize just how much discounting products will quickly cut into your bottom line. It's a business. You need to be a business person running it.
I would add that you should only sell items that will move in your area. The FLGS here closed because they bought supplies of every new thing that came down the pipeline, even though it was only WOTC products that moved. Insist that anyone making special requests pay in advance as well. When our local store closed they did so with a mass of Bella Sara stuff in stock that a few people said they would buy if the store got it in and then never did.
It's a business. You need to be a business person running it.
Ironically, there used to be a game shop near where I lived ('Games Cubed'). The guy who opened it, a business major, was making a lot of the classic mistakes: Discounting too deeply, stocking a lot of product that wouldn't move because he liked it (GURPS stuff, unpopular Chainmail factions, minis games I've never heard of...). He later had to bring on a second partner, who was an Engineer, who actually started turning the place around. It wasn't quick enough, and they closed just about a year after opening when their lease ran out and the loans came due, but the point is that 'business people' are not always good Business People.
Yeah, I do the same thing from time to time. The other day I heard an ad run by a local retail center advertising space from 450 sq ft with rent from $350 a month, including utilities . I started to calculate just how many books I would have to sell to break even on that, and could I fit it into my schedule and keep my day job as a teacher. I determined that since I get done with classes at 1pm, I could open the store at 2 pm and keep it open until 9 pm and that would be a good amount of time to be open.While I don't have any personal experience, from the number of game stores I've seen in my area open and fold within the space of a few years, I'd say tricky at best.
Personally, I've toyed around with this idea before as well... :)
Yeah, I usually catch myself eyeing vacant retail space, figuring out where the game tables and/or shelves would go, and judging how close it is to local fast food places (ie - potential Con hosting suitability).
I doubt I would ever be able to bring it off though. It's a pretty big uphill climb to make it last, from all I have been led to believe.
450 square feet? That's pretty tight for space.
It's a business. You need to be a business person running it.Ironically, there used to be a game shop near where I lived ('Games Cubed'). The guy who opened it, a business major, was making a lot of the classic mistakes: Discounting too deeply, stocking a lot of product that wouldn't move because he liked it (GURPS stuff, unpopular Chainmail factions, minis games I've never heard of...). He later had to bring on a second partner, who was an Engineer, who actually started turning the place around. It wasn't quick enough, and they closed just about a year after opening when their lease ran out and the loans came due, but the point is that 'business people' are not always good Business People.
No, you're missing the point. I meant, you have to run it as a business. IE, you have to make profit (avoid the outrageous discounts), offer what people want (find out what sells, stick to it, although question folks and find out what they might be interested in trying), and not treat it as your personal bookshelf (if an item comes in, and you open it up to use, you buy it...not go "Ahhh, we'll say this one was DAMAGED...yeah!!!")...I wasn't saying you needed to be an MBA...I was saying you need COMMON SENSE.
Also, I've gathered that it's a low-margin, niche business. It might be easy to open an LGS, but you'll probably go under if you can't seem to get that "F" in front of it.
Exactly. The one game store that opened in my tiny home town hired a very knowledgable, yet very self-absorbed... 'colleague' of mine to run the counter. They closed the doors within a year.
The other day I heard an ad run by a local retail center advertising space from 450 sq ft with rent from $350 a month, including utilities . I started to calculate just how many books I would have to sell to break even on that, and could I fit it into my schedule and keep my day job as a teacher.$350 a month?! That seems really low...
Estimates are that 25% of retail storefronts will close in '09. The mall management corporations are DESPERATE to get people into their buildings so that they generate rent revenue...
450 square feet? That's pretty tight for space.
Depends...do you want to host gaming sessions? Then yes...but, if you're tight on cash, and want to get the store STARTED....450 ft is plenty, especially if you have a good feel for what will sell and keep your inventory focused.
No, you're missing the point. I meant, you have to run it as a business. IE, you have to make profit (avoid the outrageous discounts), offer what people want (find out what sells, stick to it, although question folks and find out what they might be interested in trying), and not treat it as your personal bookshelf (if an item comes in, and you open it up to use, you buy it...not go "Ahhh, we'll say this one was DAMAGED...yeah!!!")...I wasn't saying you needed to be an MBA...I was saying you need COMMON SENSE.
I understand that. That was the point of my anecdote. I wasn't trying to argue with you.
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450 square feet? That's pretty tight for space.Yeah, I do the same thing from time to time. The other day I heard an ad run by a local retail center advertising space from 450 sq ft with rent from $350 a month, including utilities . I started to calculate just how many books I would have to sell to break even on that, and could I fit it into my schedule and keep my day job as a teacher. I determined that since I get done with classes at 1pm, I could open the store at 2 pm and keep it open until 9 pm and that would be a good amount of time to be open.While I don't have any personal experience, from the number of game stores I've seen in my area open and fold within the space of a few years, I'd say tricky at best.
Personally, I've toyed around with this idea before as well... :)
Yeah, I usually catch myself eyeing vacant retail space, figuring out where the game tables and/or shelves would go, and judging how close it is to local fast food places (ie - potential Con hosting suitability).
I doubt I would ever be able to bring it off though. It's a pretty big uphill climb to make it last, from all I have been led to believe.
It's half the size of my house, and actually bigger than the space our old game store was. I figure if I keep it focused to 4e and Pathfinder, there will be plenty of space. Everything else can be special ordered at a 5% discount.
It's half the size of my house, and actually bigger than the space our old game store was. I figure if I keep it focused to 4e and Pathfinder, there will be plenty of space. Everything else can be special ordered at a 5% discount.
You need to carry all the Games Workshop stuff as well. Here in the Killeen/Temple area of Texas it is by far the biggest selling product. However, that might be because we are a military area.
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It's half the size of my house, and actually bigger than the space our old game store was. I figure if I keep it focused to 4e and Pathfinder, there will be plenty of space. Everything else can be special ordered at a 5% discount.You need to carry all the Games Workshop stuff as well. Here in the Killeen/Temple area of Texas it is by far the biggest selling product. However, that might be because we are a military area.
The last store we had carried a bunch of Games Workshop stuff. They were sponsoring a Warhammer 40K league and hoped to cash in. nobody bought it, they all got their stuff on-line but used the store as a place to meet and play. They didn't even buy snacks from the store, they brought their own food in from outside.
I understand that. That was the point of my anecdote. I wasn't trying to argue with you.
Yes you were, Sir, and I challenge you to a duel!!!
Panties at twenty paces...on the count of THREE!!! :)
The last store we had carried a bunch of Games Workshop stuff. They were sponsoring a Warhammer 40K league and hoped to cash in. nobody bought it, they all got their stuff on-line but used the store as a place to meet and play. They didn't even buy snacks from the store, they brought their own food in from outside.
Games Workshop, IMHO, is a bit militaristic in it's marshalling of FLGS's. Popular with the military, yes. Pain in the rear to deal with or to meet qualifications? Yes.
And honestly, from what I've seen of stores that sell their own snacks, it's usually because of the price. I'd think FOR THAT you should not necessarily attempt to make a profit on it, but rather use it as a means to keep people in your store as a convenience.
Just my $.02, because I know ALL of you were waiting with baited breath on MY opinion :)
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My brother own one for about 3 years, he managed to keep it open and afloat but made almost nothing.
It is getting hard for them to compete with online stores where people can often buy the same products for less than it costs to buy them at the store. Especially with the economy that makes it hard to do, as hobbies if the first thing most people stop buying.
Locally we had a lot of stores one guy managed to get a chain going and his profits grew as he expanded. A lot of distributors offer more discount by how much you buy. So with one store you buy X amount with two you buy twice as much or nearly so meaning more profit per item. That chain is all that is left in the area all the rest went out of business but they are still doing fairly well but the owner said that was a big reason buying in bulk.
What would be considered a reasonable investment to open an FLGS / snack shop?
I'm thinking the RPG products would be an attraction for customers but really not a big profit product.
Opening a pizza place isn't a bad idea, but I really don't want to work in or operate a restaurant. I would like to operate my own retail shop and it just seems like we need a game shop around here.
Right now I'm looking at 0 employees. If I operate it 5 days a week (say Tuesday through Saturday, with hours from noon to 8 (or 1 to 9) Tuesday - Thurs and later hours on Friday and Saturday for in-store sessions... I should be able to manage that myself. That would still give me Sunday and Monday off. It's the lack of income for the initial start period that worries me.
I don't have enough money to consider it seriously at present, but if I start considering it as a pipe-dream, I can at least have a point of reference for what I'll need.
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Well for one you should likely find out what else is popular in your area and stock that weather it be anime or what have you. For cost start up, well you would need to stock the store with a solid amount of stock. I have no clue how much that would be. Get a cash register, tables, shelves ect.
If there is any shops anywhere nearby just go there with a small pad of paper and write down all the stuff you see. Number of shelves, how many tables about how many copies they keep of each item. dice display rack, ect.
Then look that all up and price it, then look up all the gaming stuff and price it times about .7 for the discount you could maybe get. Add it up and that would be just start up capital you would need. Not to mention getting the business license, first, last months rent and deposit.
Then on top of all that you need money to buy new stock of new items coming out. Something a lot of new business owners I think forget. You buy that stuff well in advance form my understanding. So figure being able to out of pocket buy the next 6 months of new stock, then 6 months rent and utilities.
Thats not even counting something to live on. most businesses don't even break even or make a profit for the first year.
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It's half the size of my house, and actually bigger than the space our old game store was. I figure if I keep it focused to 4e and Pathfinder, there will be plenty of space. Everything else can be special ordered at a 5% discount.
Sounds like plenty of space to me, and focus is good. MTG stuff might also sell, although that's a business all of its own keeping up with singles and stuff... If you end up actually opening shop, I would make sure to visit (and hopefully give you a little business) if I'm ever down for the Shakespeare Festival.
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My brother own one for about 3 years, he managed to keep it open and afloat but made almost nothing.
It is getting hard for them to compete with online stores where people can often buy the same products for less than it costs to buy them at the store. Especially with the economy that makes it hard to do, as hobbies if the first thing most people stop buying.
Locally we had a lot of stores one guy managed to get a chain going and his profits grew as he expanded. A lot of distributors offer more discount by how much you buy. So with one store you buy X amount with two you buy twice as much or nearly so meaning more profit per item. That chain is all that is left in the area all the rest went out of business but they are still doing fairly well but the owner said that was a big reason buying in bulk.
Independent bookstores basically made a bookstore "Union" of sorts called BookSense (now IndieBound) in order to help sell better like B&N and Borders. We began to really push IndieBound when I was working at Sam Weller's in Salt Lake City, and I think it let us get distributor discounts like the big boys. One cool thing was that a gift card from one independent bookstore would work at a totally different one, as long as they were IndieBound, giving people a lot more incentive to purchase gift cards, which offer good profit from what I understand. I think FLGS's could benefit from a similar "union", even though there aren't big retail giants in the gaming industry that have physical stores. Offering an internet catalog, even just in the form of an ebay store, can also help keep a small store afloat.
Chief Technical Officer
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You may want to look at the information offered by GAMA, including their retailer forums, and talk to to some potential distributors as part of your information gathering.
I'm thinking the RPG products would be an attraction for customers but really not a big profit product.
I don't have enough money to consider it seriously at present, but if I start considering it as a pipe-dream, I can at least have a point of reference for what I'll need.
Congratulations to you for considering starting your business, and good luck to you. Regarding start-up: I am not sure what conditions are like right now, since obviously the economy is crazy, but you might consider researching a small business loan. I think that is how most people who are not independently wealthy get off the ground.
I think the important thing for that kind of store is to have events, stuff going on, not just stuff sitting on the shelves.
The one in my town (http://www.littleshopofcomics.com)has a pretty small RPG shelf. They have a pretty big shelf with board games (Catan and ilk), lots of comic books, including tons of the compilations that companies put out nowadays, some Games Workshop stuff, and lots of cards.
I've never been into Magic, or whatever it is that kids are playing now, but that seems to be their big draw. They have one room off the actual store that always seems to have about 20 adolescent boys packed in playing something or other. That's what they seem to use to keep bodies coming into the store, and I think they charge fees for organizing and hosting games.
http://www.littleshopofcomics.com/Events.aspx
You may want to look at the information offered by GAMA, including their retailer forums, and talk to to some potential distributors as part of your information gathering.
Thanks for the links. I'll take a look at them. Probably something I'll never actually do, but I figure if I write it off as "too hard" or "too labyrinthine" then I'll definitely never do it, so I may as well at least look at it before surrendering.
The one in my town ( http://www.littleshopofcomics.com ) has a pretty small RPG shelf. They have a pretty big shelf with board games (Catan and ilk), lots of comic books, including tons of the compilations that companies put out nowadays, some Games Workshop stuff, and lots of cards.
I've never been into Magic, or whatever it is that kids are playing now, but that seems to be their big draw. They have one room off the actual store that always seems to have about 20 adolescent boys packed in playing something or other. That's what they seem to use to keep bodies coming into the store, and I think they charge fees for organizing and hosting games.http://www.littleshopofcomics.com/Events.aspx
Yeah, I figure it would be something like that, where I have to cater to part of an overlapping market. I don't know what the major card game is these days. Last I heard was Yu-Gi-Oh? M:tG seems to have a fair bit of staying power too.
I might check up on the nearest store, which is about 60 miles away, and see how they're doing. Might even check and see if they draw much market from my area. I don't want to cut into their market to the point that it hurts them either. Man, I really need to go down there anyway, haven't been forever. I do know that they're the second gaming store in that same location. The first one went under and someone else decided to open in the same retail space with a tighter product focus. (The first one apparently went under because he bought too much inventory that didn't move.)
Anyway... stuff to think about.
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Tips:
Have food/drinks at the store...
Carry family games/puzzles, etc.
Have a game room
Definitely support the major CCGs, Yu Gi Oh, Pokemon, and Magic.
Look into hosting other trend games.
Think about hosting a family game night.
Also, if you have an online presence that helps as well...especially if you're anywhere near the military, and you deliver to APO/FPO
Having worked for several years in two different game stores (one FLGS and one chain), here are some hard won tidbits I can offer:
1) Know your stock. Many folks want to know about a game before they buy it, and if you can't tell them anything they'll put it back on the shelf. Yes, this eats into your profits some (unless you have a shrink wrap machine to rewrap undamaged product), but get a copy of everything you can, look it over, and try it out.
2) Keep those opened copies for demoing games in your gaming area. Allowing folks to "test drive" a product goes a long way toward selling it.
3) Variety! You may be a hard core RPGer, but don't forget the CCGamers, the Board gamers, the Miniaturists, etc. You can't carry everything, but find out what's popular in your area, and have a good catalog of stuff for folks to special order from.
4) Be very careful about ordering on spec. If someone says they're interested in Napoleonics, and you order a bunch without having at least a partially paid pre-order, you will eat the whole cost. My old boss often would order things for a few customers only to have them decide after seeing 'em that they didn't really want it ;p
5) If you have staff or friends or whatever that are really into one aspect of gaming, LISTEN TO THEM ;p Again, my old boss, a great guy, but much more into Napoleonics and the miniature wargaming, did not listen to me on an order for Second Edition product. We'd sold tons of PHBs, DMGs, and the first two Monster Manual sheets/binder sets. Then the specialty sets were coming, the first being for the FR. I told him to order soft, maybe 6 copies, since I only knew of two sales, one of which was me. He disagreed and orderd 24 of the things ... he still had over a dozen when he sold the store 4 years later. ::shaking head::
6) Be careful of Games Workshop and the like where you have to order X amount of things to get Y amount of something else. You will wind up with a lot of X sitting on the shelves while Y is long gone sold, and you can't get more without getting even more of X. We used to get the shipments of figs, and have the ravening hoard around the counter waiting for unpacking to get the best goodies. Luckily for us, we had folks that wanted a lot of differing things, so we wound up with much less unsellables than some of the other stores in the area, but we always had something sitting gathering dust for a time.
7) If something new is coming out, make sure your clientele know it and that you can only guarantee they get it with a pre-order. Just like Pathfinder RPG, you will get caught short if the shoppers don'g get the word!
8) If you have space, and can afford the stock, diversify into a secondary line that brings in more folks. The store I really loved working at also sold stuff for Dollhouse Miniatures (the owner's wife was into that), Sculpy and Fimo supplies, and Comic Books. Margins on those were pretty good, so even with soft sales on some things, they helped the profit line. And there can be a lot of crossover as well as attracting family groups.
I know there's more, but that's a start :)
