Any chance WOTC would let Greyhawk go, and allow Paizo to pick it up?
Probably too far down the Golarion path, but...
I understand Living Greyhawk ended with the birth of 4e. Is there anyway to source _all_ the LG modules produced by the various RPGA Networks groups ? Wow this possibility makes me salivate. Could somebody in the know contact RPGA?
Cheers
Sean
Not a chance in hell...and if they did it would have to be 4e with boatloads of rules and guildlines.
They are there own boss now I dont think they have any attention of working for other people again. And to top that off they have a full crew and more then full workload...don't think they have time or the manpower to devote to another setting, and why would they as it competes with there own.
Thats one of the mistakes TSR made.
No way in Hell. Squared.
There's no way in Hell wizards would part with their stuff - they have taken back all the licenses they gave prior to the 4e jump (Dragon and Dungeon magazines, Ravenloft, Dragonlance, ....) and are highly unlikely to share.
And there's also no way in Hell Paizo would pick it up. Well, maybe not "no way in Hell", but quite unlikely. They already have their generic Fantasy setting - Golarion - and won't split their attention and resources between two of them.
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Any chance WOTC would let Greyhawk go, and allow Paizo to pick it up?
Probably too far down the Golarion path, but...
I understand Living Greyhawk ended with the birth of 4e. Is there anyway to source _all_ the LG modules produced by the various RPGA Networks groups ? Wow this possibility makes me salivate. Could somebody in the know contact RPGA?
Cheers
Sean
As the others said, WotC will not license Greyhawk that casually, and Paizo would be foolish to try and manage two settings with their current workload.
As for the LG adventures, the answer is equally a massive no. The RPGA does not own all the rights to them, has very little chance of contacting all of the authors to get said rights, has in fact "decanonized" certain RPGA adventures because of issues with authors, and would have to find non-existent money to pay for the rights if they wanted them. People have contacted the RPGA, and their answers confirmed that.
It is simply not happening.
Creative Director
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This is very unlikely. We spent several years playing in somenone else's sandbox (the magazines), and while that was REALLY FUN and quite satisfying to help develop what development we DID on Greyhawk, as it turns out, being in charge of your own destiny with your own setting is a lot more fun, and a lot less frustrating.
I suspect that Paizo would only be interested in taking over Greyhawk if we got it lock, stock, and barrel; not just a license, but actual ownership of the intellectual property. And even then, we'd end up competing against ourselves with what's basically a VERY similar campaign setting with Golarion; so even then we might not go for it.
So the chances are very unlikely.
Who knows what the future (as in 5 or 10 or 20 years from now) might bring, though?
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This is very unlikely. We spent several years playing in somenone else's sandbox (the magazines), and while that was REALLY FUN and quite satisfying to help develop what development we DID on Greyhawk, as it turns out, being in charge of your own destiny with your own setting is a lot more fun, and a lot less frustrating.
God knows it may have been frustrating for you. But I still think that Erik Mona's love of Greyhawk was the single best thing to come out of Paizo. Think Age of Worms, Istivin, think of the awesome poster map (just ordered another set :) ). How I miss those years. The Greyhawk years are something so intensely personal, something shaped by one man's vision, that I found deeply endearing about Paizo. Most of this I feel is gone in the hodge podge kitchen sink setting that is Golarion, which is much closer to the Forgotten Realms (and, oh my, how much the current Adventure Path has the Realms all over it - from a city nearly named "Zaknafein" to "devil infested Myth Drannor (TM)" by another name - where I hoped for tributes to Sterich and Co.). I know Golarion is your own homebrew, but I wish it came across as such.
Only time will tell if Golarion can become something equally fuelled with passion and love for the hobby. It surely won't ever have the history (and, ay, the flamewars over its canon) but it may have those. Best of luck!
Any chance WOTC would let Greyhawk go, and allow Paizo to pick it up?
Probably too far down the Golarion path, but...
I understand Living Greyhawk ended with the birth of 4e. Is there anyway to source _all_ the LG modules produced by the various RPGA Networks groups ? Wow this possibility makes me salivate. Could somebody in the know contact RPGA?
Cheers
Sean
Just wait about 2 more years when Hasbro sells off the D&D line... Paizo will probably pick it up then :)
I have many reasons and justifications for the above statement, but that is not the focus of this thread. Based on my forecasting of Hasbro's business model in 2 years Hasbro will be selling off the D&D line. If I'm wrong, then just call me looney... if you are not already doing that now :)
I am a big GH fan, but I honestly think its a thing of the past and maybe best left there. I really like what Paizo has done with Golarion, and I look forward to it's continued development. If revival of old campaign worlds does become a possibility in the future, then let's add Dark Sun to that list too :)
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They already have their generic Fantasy setting - Golarion - and won't split their attention and resources between two of them.
Greyhawk is so far from generic that I have a hard time understanding what you're after. The huge thing about Greyhawk is that it was centred on humans. In an interview with Wolf Baur in Kobold Quarterly Erik Mona said that he'd do one such - a human centred campaign world - if he could get away with it. (Boy do I hope my memory isn't subject to wishful thinking here.) Golarion is so far removed from Greyhawk that I really can't understand why people think they are similar. I've just named one difference, and I'm sure you'll be able to see others if you look closer. Kor is right though. It's much easier to sell the Realms noawadys than Greyhawk. Like the Wilderlands - which focused its exotic details on humans - Greyhawk really may be a thing of foregone days.
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Creative Director
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It wasn't just Erik's love of Greyhawk that fueled the Greyhawk flames at Paizo... Greyhawk has always been my favorite setting as well. And while there's certainly a share of FR in Golarion... the Greyhawk influences on it (and on my homebrew campaign, which helped inspire SOME of Golarion but certainly not all of it) are more potent. And I would compare the drow city of Zirnakaynin to Erelhi-Cinlu before I would compare it to Menzoberranzan, honestly, especially with its layout of having the noble houses separate from the city itself on a higher area and its focus on multiple demon lords rather than a specific pantheon of deities led by Lolth. Other blatant Greyhawk inspirations in Golarion include Thassilon (inspired by the Suel empire), the Storval Plateau (inspired by the Against the Giants modules), Rovagug (inspired by Tharizdun), Numeria (inspired by the Barrier Peaks's strange metal cave and Blackmoor), and more.
Varisia is actually a pretty accurate representation of my homebrew, actually, especially elements like the Skinsaw Men, the Red Mantis, the lovecraftian elements, and Thassilon's legacy and its sin magic.
As for whether Golarion will ever be as fueled with passion as Greyhawk; you're right. Only time will tell. Greyhawk's got about 30 years head start on Golarion, and without Greyhawk Golarion would have probably been a VERY different place. But I can say that about pretty much ever single D&D campaign, to be honest.
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Creative Director
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They already have their generic Fantasy setting - Golarion - and won't split their attention and resources between two of them.Greyhawk is so far from generic that I have a hard time understanding what you're after. The huge thing about Greyhawk is that it was centred on humans. In an interview with Wolf Baur in Kobold Quarterly Erik Mona said that he'd do one such - a human centred campaign world - if he could get away with it. (Boy do I hope my memory isn't subject to wishful thinking here.) Golarion is so far removed from Greyhawk that I really can't understand why people think they are similar. I've just named one difference, and I'm sure you'll be able to see others if you look closer. Kor is right though. It's much easier to sell the Realms noawadys than Greyhawk. Like the Wilderlands - which focused its exotic details on humans - Greyhawk really may be a thing of foregone days.
And that's another way Golarion was inspired by Greyhawk, honestly: Golarion is arguably as humanocentric as Greyhawk. You're partially correct in that Erik would have preferred to make this campaign a humans-only world... but Golarion isn't just his world. It's not just my world either. It's supposed to be a world for anyone to play the type of D&D game they want to play, and that means it includes pretty much everything one would expect from the implied world of the Core Rules. Yet still... we did skew things toward a humanocentric setting; the majority of our adventures and supplements focus on human lands, after all, and the amount of pages in our Campaign Setting devoted to talking about the human ethnecities outweighs what we had to say about demihumans.
Part of the problem with Greyhawk, honestly, is that it's been around long enough for a lot of people to have different ideas about what it is. This is further complicated by the fact that there are several different versions of competing versions of the campaign setting (Gygax's Greyhawk, Sargent's Greyhawk, WotC's Greyhawk, Paizo Greyhawk, and that doesn't even touch things like Blackmoor or Yggsburgh). Each version of Greyhawk has its own group of passionate fans who prefer their chosen version of the world, each of which is pretty different than the other.
A "new" Greyhawk would probably create yet another schism. And I'm not sure that's something that's necessarily for the best.
In any case, I agree that Greyhawk's not generic. There's a lot of great stuff in Greyhawk, but if it were "generic" it wouldn't have bothered with all those proper nouns like Iggwilv and Mordenkainen and Tritherion and Iuz.
Being among the first and being the implied baseline of a rules set (which is more or less what Greyhawk has been for D&D up until 4th edition) does not mean generic.
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Thanks for your answers! Deeply appreciated
Varisia is actually a pretty accurate representation of my homebrew, actually, especially elements like the Skinsaw Men, the Red Mantis, the lovecraftian elements, and Thassilon's legacy and its sin magic.
Yes, yes and yes! THIS is where I definitely feel your personal influence coming through - Lovecraft. Since I wanted to pursue your tips in Spires of Xin-Shalast on how to elaborate the Leng plateau, I purchased the Chaosium sourcebook you recommended - Dreamlands (2nd edition). When I saw some of the recent artwork for the Absalom book in the Pathfinder Chronicles series (artwork posted in the Paizo blog) I thought I saw a wonderful tribute to the Dreamlands' cover art. Would you see such a connection here too? :)
If I'm wrong, then just call me looney... if you are not already doing that now :)
Of course we do. But not necessarily because of this. I'm also not sure that Hasbro will hold on to D&D that much longer.
Greyhawk is so far from generic that I have a hard time understanding what you're after.
Of course it's generic. It's a fantasy setting. Not a fantasy setting with really weird critters no one else has ever thought of. Not a gothic horror setting (or horror setting at all), not a wuxia setting. Not an apocalyptic setting. No Steampunk or Scifi/Fantasy....
It may have a lot of unique features (I don't know that much about GH), but at its core, it's "just" Fantasy.
The huge thing about Greyhawk is that it was centred on humans.
Same goes for Golarion.
Golarion is so far removed from Greyhawk that I really can't understand why people think they are similar.
Both are "regular" fantasy. Die-hard fans will be able to rattle off hundreds of things where they differ, but compared to Ravenloft, Spelljammer, Dark Sun, Rokugan, Midnight, Iron Kingdoms, even Eberron...
I'm sure you'll be able to see others if you look closer.
And that's the problem: You need to get people to look closer. If you offer them two different Campaign Settings and tell people that you want to sell both to them, at once, it really helps if the differences jump out at you at once.
It is probably best to let Greyhawk rest in peace after all, sad as it may be. If somebody else were to pick up GH, all the flame wars about what is considered canon would start anew - and between those accepting only the 1980 folio and those integrating the last adventure path into the setting, there is a HUGE space for different tastes. And I would rather see paizo concentrating their creative power on Pathfinder and Golarion than to split themselves between different settings (and try to reconcile different rule versions and the effects these have.)
That said, nothing keeps you from placing GH to the far,far east from Golarion - the map given for GH in the Dragon Annual (1995 or so) was not so accurate as to prohibit such an idea.
Regarding the Living Greyhawk material: It is a shame at least in some cases that it is no longer available, as several triads did a good job detailing their respective areas, some of it was freely available at the time. Can´t say anything about the adventures though, even if I would love to have a look at the Bright Sands story arc - I always liked the Rary the Traitor stuff for developing the Bright Desert area.
Stefan
This is very unlikely. We spent several years playing in somenone else's sandbox (the magazines), and while that was REALLY FUN and quite satisfying to help develop what development we DID on Greyhawk, as it turns out, being in charge of your own destiny with your own setting is a lot more fun, and a lot less frustrating.God knows it may have been frustrating for you. But I still think that Erik Mona's love of Greyhawk was the single best thing to come out of Paizo. Think Age of Worms, Istivin, think of the awesome poster map (just ordered another set :) ). How I miss those years. The Greyhawk years are something so intensely personal, something shaped by one man's vision, that I found deeply endearing about Paizo. Most of this I feel is gone in the hodge podge kitchen sink setting that is Golarion, which is much closer to the Forgotten Realms (and, oh my, how much the current Adventure Path has the Realms all over it - from a city nearly named "Zaknafein" to "devil infested Myth Drannor (TM)" by another name - where I hoped for tributes to Sterich and Co.). I know Golarion is your own homebrew, but I wish it came across as such.
Agreed. I miss those years... Would have loved to see more Greyhawk goodness....