thefishcometh
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I've always had a bit of an issue with the repeating crossbow in DnD. It never made a whole lot of sense to me. While it has a bit of a "cool" factor, it throws any semblance of realism to the wind. A crossbow's firing speed depends much less on where the bolts are situated and more on how quickly the string can be pulled back. Now, I'm all for fantasy weapons. I like my spiked chains and ridiculously huge swords. But honestly, the real-world repeating crossbow is awesome enough on its own. Here are my house rules for the Chu Ko Nu.
Chu Ko Nu - 50 gp - 1d3(S)/1d4(M) - 19-20/x2 - 25 ft - 8lb - Piercing
All attacks made with a Chu Ko Nu are made with a -2 penalty. This penalty does not stack with the penalty due to nonproficiency. Whenever a character attacks with a Chu Ko Nu, she may make one additional attack for each attack she would normally be granted, at an additional -2 penalty.
Example: A level 6 fighter with Chu Ko Nu proficiency may make 4 attacks with a full attack action at BAB +4/+2/-1/-3, or two attacks as a standard action at BAB +4/+2.
Note: The reason I chose to have the -2 penalty not stack with the nonproficiency penalty is because the Chu Ko Nu is largely a peasants weapon. It is inaccurate by its very nature, and most of its users would not have proficiency with it.
| Darwin |
Basically it's such a simple and crude and inaccurate weapon that no amount of training or lack therof helps. You load it, you point it at the enemy, you rack the handle back and forth as quickly as you can, and when it's empty you hide.
Fine by me for the historical version, and seems to fit. I may even downgrade the damage: it was usually used with some sort of poison, and barely had enough power to pierce the skin. Certainly an annoyance though.
Then you have the exotic, as written version for the sort that was shown in the movie Van Helsing, a fast firing, powerful, accurate doom-chucker.
| Thraxus |
From what I understand, the inaccuracy of the chu-ko-nu was largely due to it not being shoulder fired. It traded the ability to aim for volumn of shots.
A chu-ko-nu had a rate of fire of about 2 bolts per second, and an accurate range of around 50 to 75 yards. I would personally give it a range increment of 35 feet to account for lucky shots beyond the accurate range. it also helps account for some variances in estimated accutate range.
Due to its rate of fire, it was deadly when fired into groups. In fact it was still used for siege defense as late as the Boxer Rebellion.
| Carnivorous_Bean |
From my understanding, too (which may be erroneous), the repeating crossbow was so weak as to require poisoned bolts in order to have any effect at all. So a realistic repeating crossbow should probably do 1 point of damage per hit, although it can be used as a vehicle for poison.
It should also have a pretty hefty to-hit penalty, IMO.
The actual weapon always struck me more as a "curiosity thought up by Chinese bureaucrats far from a battlefield" than a "functional weapon."
Sneaksy Dragon
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Threadjack
im all good with making realistic weapons, just make sure the hype of the long bow doesnt fool you too much (its a great weapon, but it should not be faster to load than a sling, thats just plain dumb) bows should do less base damage (1d4 for shortbow 1d6 for longbow) but very nice crits (19-20x3)move action to reload (can take quickdraw OR rapid reload to negate)
Xaaon of Xen'Drik
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Threadjack
im all good with making realistic weapons, just make sure the hype of the long bow doesnt fool you too much (its a great weapon, but it should not be faster to load than a sling, thats just plain dumb) bows should do less base damage (1d4 for shortbow 1d6 for longbow) but very nice crits (19-20x3)move action to reload (can take quickdraw OR rapid reload to negate)
Actually slings are pretty slow, we're talking a sling, not a modern slingshot...Leather thong, put the stone in, grab the other end, wind it up and release, it takes a few winds to get the stone moving fast enough to releas *think Olympic hammer throw*...Now a skilled longbowman can release arrows very quickly by comparison, there's a reason slings were not used throughout history while bows were.
Sneaksy Dragon
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range and penetrating power are the reasons archer did better than use of slings. a skilled sling wielder could let those shot fly pretty darn fast (imagine them grabbing a hand full of shots with their off hand and loading shot after slung shot.)
how is drawing an arrow from a quiver a free action?? i cant imagine it is much faster than drawing daggers from sheaths. (prolly actually slower)
stop putting your longbow on a pedestal. (even IF longbows are THAT great, lets get some variety up in this piece by making other ranged weapons an option.
| Darwin |
range and penetrating power are the reasons archer did better than use of slings. a skilled sling wielder could let those shot fly pretty darn fast (imagine them grabbing a hand full of shots with their off hand and loading shot after slung shot.)
how is drawing an arrow from a quiver a free action?? i cant imagine it is much faster than drawing daggers from sheaths. (prolly actually slower)
stop putting your longbow on a pedestal. (even IF longbows are THAT great, lets get some variety up in this piece by making other ranged weapons an option.
A round is still 6 seconds, right? on to a little pet peeve of mine. I just can't see a bowman getting off more than about 2 shots in that time, without hundreds of years of experience like Legolas the Prettiest. Bows have been getting a free ride since 3.0, and only mechanisms like the repeating crossbow and fast-drawing weapons like throwing knives/darts and shruiken should allow a missile-using combatant to utilize his full attacks. proficient? 1 attack. rapid shot? 2 attacks (At a -2 for both) and it stops there until you get in the legendary hero BAB+16 range. I can deal with making bows a little stronger (and crossbows too!) to compensate, cause what's wrong with an Arbalest that does 2d10 18-20/x2 damage and takes a full round to reload, really?
| R_Chance |
A round is still 6 seconds, right? on to a little pet peeve of mine. I just can't see a bowman getting off more than about 2 shots in that time, without hundreds of years of experience like Legolas the Prettiest. Bows have been getting a free ride since 3.0, and only mechanisms like the repeating crossbow and fast-drawing weapons like throwing knives/darts and shruiken should allow a missile-using combatant to utilize his full attacks. proficient? 1 attack. rapid shot? 2 attacks (At a -2 for both) and it stops there until you get in the legendary hero BAB+16 range. I can deal with making bows a little stronger (and crossbows too!) to compensate, cause what's wrong with an Arbalest that does 2d10 18-20/x2 damage and takes a full round to reload, really?
Historically, a trained longbowman could release 2 arrows in six seconds. Legendary archers could do more. That's the bit with D&D -- it's heroic fantasy. If we limit the number of attacks to what could be historically done by a typical combatant... it gets kind of tame. Gets rough on those magicians too :D
As for the sling, they spend a bit of time whipping the shot around before they release. Then they have to seat the next shot (typically a lead shot, not a rock) in the cup for the next shot. Certainly no faster than a bow.
| Dark Psion |
What I have never understood is that we can infuse a weapon with all the energies of the mutliverse, but something a simple as a magical auto-cocking crossbow seems rare in the game?
In the Movie Hawk the Slayer, one of the heroes has a magical crossbow, it reloads automatically allowing for full auto-fire and has a clip of bolts that acts like a bag of holding. But I don't think I have ever seen a similar item in D&D.
| Darwin |
What I have never understood is that we can infuse a weapon with all the energies of the mutliverse, but something a simple as a magical auto-cocking crossbow seems rare in the game?
In the Movie Hawk the Slayer, one of the heroes has a magical crossbow, it reloads automatically allowing for full auto-fire and has a clip of bolts that acts like a bag of holding. But I don't think I have ever seen a similar item in D&D.
Hawk the Slayer is full of awesome crack. :D
| Darwin |
Historically, a trained longbowman could release 2 arrows in six seconds. Legendary archers could do more. That's the bit with D&D -- it's heroic fantasy. If we limit the number of attacks to what could be historically done by a typical combatant... it gets kind of tame.
The way I understand D&D, and would like to see it run, is that levels 1-10 are what one normally understands as 'heroic'. 11-20, you're in the legendary, superheroic range, and the fighters and archers and rogues can and should be able to do impressive, impossible things, just like the wizards and clerics. put into that perspective, the rapid-firing bowman should be getting his third arrow in the air/round around 9th level. As it stands it's at 6th, (rapid shot +4,+4,-1) so we're not too far off here when you look at it.