Shield Bash - no Dex please!

[Vult Wrathblades]

This has been discussed before but I really wanted to talk about it here.

Shield bashing is a near impossibility with the way the rules on it are currently done. It is harder to be a good shield basher than a good 2 weapon fighter!

My proposal is that we remove the dex requirement (basically severing the link between bashing and TWF) so that anyone using a shield can bash. My proposal is this.

Shield Bash: Once per round at your highest BAB, a person using a shield may attempt to bash with it. Doing so causes the loss of all shield bonuses to AC, and a minus to hit with the shield = the armor check penalty of the shield.

This would allow people to actually use shield bash, with a minus to do so. Of course anyone who would like shield bashing would want to pick up improved bash, as to not loose their shield bonus.

I would also add in that, if you have TWF, each additional attack that you would gain from that could also be done with a shield. This way the guy who really wants to hammer things with it, and can invest in it, can really do some damage.

[DustinGebhardt]

I like the idea of this, but perhaps not the implementation. It give the sword-and-board types a bit more meat, for sure. But you are effectively giving the SAB guy a +6/+10 to hit with his 2 attacks for free while forcing the TWF guy to have a higher Dex and take a feat that still leaves him at -4/-4.

Instead, how about keeping the shield bash the same. But change Improved Shield Bash to:

Improved Shield Bash: Once per round at your highest BAB, a person using a shield may attempt to bash with it. A minus to hit for both attacks = twice the armor check penalty of the shield.

You would effectively give the SAB guy the equivalent of the TWF feat, without the Dex requirement, but only usable when bashing. And since the attack penalty is twice the AC check penalty, you still get a -4 to hit. Using a "light" shield would reduce this to -2, just like the TWF feat. You would basically waive the Dex requirement and gain back the shield AC bonus, but this would only be usable when bashing.

If this is too much, then keep the AC penalty and make another feat that allows you to get it back. Perhaps tack this onto the new "Shield Focus" feat, making that feat a lot more desirable?

This should go to the skills/feats section, but perhaps there is another way around it.

[JoelF847]

I think you're refering to shield bashing while still making attacks with your primary weapon. Anyone who can use a shield can bash with it as their attack(s) for the round - it's only when also attacking with your weapon that the dex requirement for TWF feat is an issue.

I play characters that use shield bash occasionally instead of their swords to remove the need to carry and switch to a blunt weapon when fighting skeletons for example...

[Robert Brambley]

JoelF847 wrote:

I think you're refering to shield bashing while still making attacks with your primary weapon. Anyone who can use a shield can bash with it as their attack(s) for the round - it's only when also attacking with your weapon that the dex requirement for TWF feat is an issue.

I play characters that use shield bash occasionally instead of their swords to remove the need to carry and switch to a blunt weapon when fighting skeletons for example...

Quite Right. I would simply say to remove the TWF feat from a prereq from some of the shield-bashing feats; because clearly those using a shield are rarely the ones with a DEX capable of taking TWF.

Robert

[Vult Wrathblades]

Robert Brambley wrote:

JoelF847 wrote:

I think you're refering to shield bashing while still making attacks with your primary weapon. Anyone who can use a shield can bash with it as their attack(s) for the round - it's only when also attacking with your weapon that the dex requirement for TWF feat is an issue.

I play characters that use shield bash occasionally instead of their swords to remove the need to carry and switch to a blunt weapon when fighting skeletons for example...

Quite Right. I would simply say to remove the TWF feat from a prereq from some of the shield-bashing feats; because clearly those using a shield are rarely the ones with a DEX capable of taking TWF.

Robert

This is exactly the point. As it stands it is nearly impossible to make a character OTHER than a fighter that can Shield Bash. I feel this is a problem with the mechanics of bashing, and I also feel it would be a simple fix.

[Matthew Hooper]

Hmm. You know, from my own limited experience with sword and board fighting, shield bashing is as much a matter of trapping your opponent's weapon as actually hitting him with it. It's a rare man who dies from being hit by a shield.

What if shield bashing was a debuff of some stripe instead of a damage source? That would differentiate it from TWF that much more....

Hmm.... how about:

Shield Bash

You smash your shield into your opponent, leaving him reeling.

Effect: As a standard action, you may make make a touch attack against one opponent. If the attack hits, that opponent must make a Fortitude save (DC=your BAB+shield bonus) or be dazed.

This might be fighter-only, or at the end of a longer feat chain - it's pretty potent.