| N S |
I have been reading up on the new item creation rules, and I must admit, I am a bit confused. Let me explain:
You have a 3rd level cleric with an Int of 10. For his 3rd level feat, he took Craft Wondrous Item. He places one rank in Spellcraft, which gives him a +4 bonus to Spellcraft.
Now, he is looking for wondrous items to create. He sees Sovereign Glue, and laughs. CL 20. But, the spell required is Make Whole... That is a 2nd level Cleric spell... According to the rules, so long as he is capable of casting the spell, he can attempt to craft the item, even though he doesn't meet the minimum caster level for the item itself.
So, he spends three days and 1,200gp worth of supplies. At the end, he makes a Spellcraft check to determine success. His DC is 5+minimum CL (+5 for each prerequisite he does not meet). So, his DC is 5+20+5 (because he does not meet the minimum caster level for the item). That is a DC 30 Spellcraft check. If he rolls a 20, he only gets a 24. He is guaranteed to fail by 5 or more, making Cursed Sovereign Glue.
Now, the Appraise check to determine the function of said cleric's work is 18 (15+CL = 15+3). The DC to determine that it is cursed is 28. A 3rd level character is likely to have at least a +8, and taking a 10 on the Appraise check with Detect Magic is likely to determine that it is Sovereign Glue (not detecting the Curse). Is this an effective way for clerics to dupe unsuspecting victims into purchasing cursed items? Any cleric of a God of Trickery should be making as much of this stuff as possible!!!
Next query... a 5th level Wizard who has taken Craft Magic Arms and Armor. According to the magic item creation, he needs a minimum caster level of 3x the bonus he intends to enchant (so a +1 needs a CL of 3 and a +2 needs a caster level of 6). Let's see what kind of Spellcraft we can get by 5th level:
Let's say we rolled well. We got an 18. We put that into Int, and chose Int for our human +2. As a human, we get 2 feats at 1st level+Scribe scroll. We choose Skill Focus: Spellcraft and Magical Aptitude. This gives us a Spellcraft of +18 before magic items (5 ranks, +5 Int, +3 Class skill bonus, +3 Skill Focus, +2 Magical Aptitude). With magic items, you can probably get a headband of int+2 by then for a +19, but that really isn't necessary.
Let's just look at magic weapons:
Our wizard decides he wants to create a +5 weapon. Should be impossible, because he is not 15th level. But, according to the overriding rule for magic item creation:
"Note that all items have prerequisites in their descriptions. These prerequisites must be met for the item to be created. Most of the time, they take the form of spells that must be known by the item’s creator (although access through another magic item or spellcaster is allowed). The DC to create a magic item increases by +5 for each prerequisite the caster does not meet. The only exception to this is the requisite item creation feat, which is mandatory."
So, the only thing that is mandatory is the item creation feat. He doesn't need to meet the 15th level prerequisite, but just increase the Spellcraft DC by +5. So, what is his DC to create this +5 weapon? It is 5+CL+5 = 5+15+5 = 25. By taking a 10, our wizard gets a 28. He is guaranteed to succeed.
Now, you might say, that is rather prohibitive. Our 5th level wizard is going to have a problem finding the 25,000gp material components needed for crafting a +5 weapon. All the wizard needs to do is find someone looking for a +5 weapon. He doesn't need to adventure at all. Once he finds someone, he just has them pay the 50,000gp, and he begins toiling away. 100 days later, he has two +5 weapons made with guaranteed success! He sells the second one and now has 50,000gp of his own to do whatever he wants with. For 100 days of work, why would a wizard ever go adventuring again?
| Mark Lewis 89 |
Doing a spellcraft check of the ITEM caster level +5 is rather foolish. Another gaming system used to use the same restrictions for item creation and it just broke down in certain areas. Pearls of power, caster level 17? Hello?
In that other gaming systems current revision they had the good sense to go back to the DMG and the requirements are being able to cast the spells (or have someone around that can) to make the item unless the item specifically states a caster level requirement. (like ioun stones which require 12th level)
This restriction really doesnt work as you pointed out with the glue. Caster level 20?
Come on...
| N S |
Actually, I just found something a bit worse. Let's take a 3rd level wizard. He says, I could use a Headband of Vast Intellect +6!!! The caster level is only 8!
He has a 20 Int (rolled 18, +2 from human), 3 ranks of Spellcraft, Skill Focus (Spellcraft), and Magical Aptitude. He then takes Craft Wondrous Item for his 3rd level feat.
Now, he has a +16 Spellcraft. His DC to make the headband: 5+8+5 = 18. He succeeds on a 2. The 18,000gp required is a little prohibitive, but if he starts off by making the Headband +2, selling it, making another, selling it, another, selling it, etc., he can work within his budget to never need to adventure, just spend a year making crappy items until he can afford to make the expensive ones. So, he eventually works up to the 18,000gp he needs and makes his Headband of Vast Intellect +6. Now, his spellcraft is +19. That's just dandy! A Headband of Mental Superiority has a minimum caster level of 16. If he wants to make that, he just needs to succeed on a DC 26 Spellcraft check. He succeeds on a 7 (and he may take 10 on Spellcraft checks).
Of course, I may just be reading this wrong. Still, it seems that after 3rd level, there is no reason for a spellcaster to ever go adventuring again! Hopefully some clarification on how this really works will come out, because the magic item creation guide really befuddled me in this regard.
And the more I think about it, the more I think that spellcasters would get giddy at the prospect of generating so much wealth from so little effort expended. What is to stop wise 4th level adepts from banding together to create inexpensive magic items of immense power? With basically the same feats I described for the wizard, the adepts are capable of generating physically enhancing wondrous items (Bear's Endurance, Bull's Strength, and Cat's Grace are all on their spell list, and with a 14 Wis or better, they have enough wisdom to gain a bonus 2nd level spell per day... odd how Fox's Cunning, Owl's Wisdom, and Eagle's Splendor are not). Anyway, the adept (with a 10 Int) could have 4 ranks in Spellcraft and the two feats mentioned above, giving each of them a +12 Spellcraft. If they had an 11 Wis to start, they can put their human +2 into Wis and put one more point at 4th level. 3rd level, they need Craft Wondrous Item, and voila! They are now nearly as capable at creating uber magic items as the 3rd level wizard with a 20 Int! To make Belts of Physical Perfection, they need to find a way to increase their spellcraft by 4, but the Belts of Physical Might are well within their reach. Two adepts per belt are needed to cast the requisite spell, but that is not terribly difficult. Especially considering the profits to me made!
So, now, all adepts just spend their time making easy-to-produce magic items well above their power level. True, these items will be easier to suppress with Dispel Magic checks than items created at their normal caster level, but when the fighter heads into town and sees these discount items, why would he ever bother with a properly-made one? How often is a caster going to think, "I should suppress the magic of his shoddily-made belt!" So, the cheap items become all the craze! Monsters are getting slain left and right by low-level parties. These parties are leveling-up like crazy! The low-level adepts keep making these belts, and before you know it, the market has dropped out! They flooded the market with their incredibly affordable belts. Now, they are being given away like last year's fruitcake. The guild of adepts is the new economic power in the campaign setting. Through the ensuing political maneuvering, several adepts gain a few levels, and now, they are busting out their Use Magic Device skills! Before you know it, they have every magic item you can think of available for purchase, ensuring their rise to the top!
This guild of adepts grows with each new magically inclined NPC that is born. Seeing their power waning, governments try to curb the power of the adepts, only to find their supply of magic items suddenly stop entirely. The guild has full control over magic in general. The king's wizards attempt to face off against these adepts, confident that their power is just as strong, but adept is an NPC class whereas wizard is a PC class. There are bound to be more NPC adepts than NPC wizards! The adepts easily overpower the wizards, conquering entire kingdoms, setting up NPCocracies where any PCs discovered are killed on the spot. There are no adventurers anymore. They have all been slaughtered. There are the adepts and the peasants. The adepts make magic items for each other when it suits their fancy, but other than that, they are content with their absolute power.
| N S |
Rereading it all again, perhaps the only requirements that can be ignored are the ones that are listed in the "Requirements" section of each magic item. This seems odd, though, as it seems that one could ignore the spells necessary for creating magic items. When the 17th level wizard decides to craft his Tome of Clear Thought +5, maybe he is allowed to ignore the requirement for Wish to be prepared. If this is the case, does he still need the 25,000gp diamond for it? I mean, increasing the spellcraft DC by 5 seems like a poor trade-off if the wizard no longer needs to be capable of casting Wish.
| Thazar |
There are two items I think you are missing.
One - In the PFRPG on page 98 it specifically states that selling player crafted magic items will only result at half the value of the list price. As stated this is clearly for game balance reasons, and in limited cases can be overruled by the DM for RP purposes. But as written it prevents the wealth machine you have detailed.
Two- I do not believe you can take 10 when there is a consequence for failure. And creating a cursed item is certain a bad consequence.
Overall I like the ability to have some flexibility in when and how you make an item. It allows for more fun in the game. The DM still has most of the control as he/she will control the level of gold in the game. Also the DM has control over how much free and uninterrupted time a player has to create items.
Keep in mind also that a player that is making items... and especially a player that is making items before meeting the requirements... is spending a lot of character resources in feats and skill points to be able to do so.
Finally, I love the mechanic of how and why cursed items can be in game. That makes the game and world feel a little more whole in its internal logic.
| N S |
Caster levels are not a prerequisite, unless they are specifically stated in the requirements section. The listed caster level is only the expected level for pre-made items the characters come across.
What makes you say that? Game balance? While I agree that is a good rule of thumb, the caster level listed is expressly described as the minimum caster level for an item. The term minimum is a term indicating a prerequisite. Nothing in the rules states that all prerequisites are going to be listed in the Requirements section. The closest we have is a rule that Item Creation feats cannot be bypassed, and these feats happen to be displayed in the Requirements section.
So, I agree that minimum caster level should not be able to be bypassed, but it is still a prerequisite that by the rules may be possible to be bypassed by simply increasing the DC by 5. I would just like clarification from the PF designers themselves as to what they intended. That, or change the name Requirements to Prerequisites. Or change the text to say that Requirements can be bypassed (instead of prerequisites).
| N S |
There are two items I think you are missing.
One - In the PFRPG on page 98 it specifically states that selling player crafted magic items will only result at half the value of the list price. As stated this is clearly for game balance reasons, and in limited cases can be overruled by the DM for RP purposes. But as written it prevents the wealth machine you have detailed.
Two- I do not believe you can take 10 when there is a consequence for failure. And creating a cursed item is certain a bad consequence.
Overall I like the ability to have some flexibility in when and how you make an item. It allows for more fun in the game. The DM still has most of the control as he/she will control the level of gold in the game. Also the DM has control over how much free and uninterrupted time a player has to create items.
Keep in mind also that a player that is making items... and especially a player that is making items before meeting the requirements... is spending a lot of character resources in feats and skill points to be able to do so.
Finally, I love the mechanic of how and why cursed items can be in game. That makes the game and world feel a little more whole in its internal logic.
Those are good points, all, but don't really address the problem with NPCs and magic items. I think it is nice when the rules describe the setting. In this instance, there is definitely something missing. It could be as simple as saying that magic item supplies include supplies that are gathered by adventurers, and those are the really costly components. Since adventuring wizards are, well, adventurers, they come across those ingredients all the time! So, city-based magic item crafters actually have to purchase more expensive components which increases the magic item creation cost enough so that they are making a decent salary, but commensurate with the salaries surrounding them, yet when the wizard wants to make a magic item, he is spending half as much. That is entirely possible, and I'll probably use that when describing how the system doesn't break down. Still, from a flavor perspective, I would like to hear what the designers envision as the reason the NPCs don't break the economic system.
Edit: Additionally, I had not thought about the potential consequences. Actually, creating a cursed item is not necessarily a bad thing, especially for the 3rd level cleric attempting to create Sovereign Glue, who is actually trying to create a cursed item. But, I would have to say that the possibility of it failing and wasting the resources is a good reason why taking 10 would be unavailable.
| Mark Lewis 89 |
Basically by using the item's caster level as a pre-req for the crafter's caster level, you break all sorts of things within the campaign that later then have to be fixed.
The DMG is really quite clear but often people misunderstand about crafting and what is required. The requirements are listed under every magic item and the 'caster level' of the item has nothing to do with it.
What you need to do is meet the requirements listed, have the time and cash on hand (and XP) to make the item and be able to cast (or have an NPC cast) the spells listed. There are a few other exceptions that deal with enhancement bonuses (and levels required) to do armors and weapons but again the DMG explains what these are.
An example: Pearl of power. (listed as caster level 17 for the ITEM) The requirement is have craft wondrous item and be able to actually cast spells of the given level of the pearl. That's it.
Exception being for example the ioun stone, which the DMG specifically states requires the feats necessary and being a 12th level caster.
LG originally used this system to 'control' magic item creation and it ended up just being a nightmare. (with all sorts of things that had to then be modified or they made no sense)
Like Sovereign glue? Caster level 20?
I'm all for 'fixing' magic item creation to be something more reasonable, but the way Pathfinder is suggesting to do it, causes more problems than it fixes. (lots of headaches)
| N S |
So, someone could make Sovereign Glue with CL 3, since Make Whole requires a minimum caster level of 3? Would that affect its price? It seems items are priced based on their caster level, so would you multiply the market price by 3/20 to get the new market price, or do you ignore that for wondrous items? (If it was multiplied by 3/20, then Sovereign Glue would only cost 360gp per vial...
| N S |
Ok, I have read it a few more times, and now I am more confused than before. The 3.5 SRD had everything that is now listed as "Requirements" as "Prerequisites". So, when the Pathfinder text refers to bypassing prerequisites, it seems to be referring to the "Requirements" as others have stated, but this is really not clear.
Additionally, a caster can create any item, so long as he meets the minimum caster level for the spells required for the item. But, if he is bypassing spells needed, what caster level does he need? I'm totally confused. It is possible for anyone of 3rd level to attempt to make any wondrous item, with or without the necessary spells, but likely, will just result in a cursed item? For instance, the Tome of Clear Thought +5. Some 3rd level wizard really wants one. He can't cast wish, so he can't create one. But, he decides to bypass wish, increasing the DC by 5. Is he now capable of attempting to make the Tome of Clear Thought +5? He will usually fail, obviously, because his spellcraft will not be high enough to come anywhere close to the DC 27 needed to succeed (5+17+5). How much would the item cost if he is bypassing the Wish spell? Would the 25,000gp material component cost be removed? I'm not sure it is in there in the first place... It seems like no material component is being used when the Wish spell is used for creating a wondrous item. The cost for the +1 tome is less than the cost of the diamond needed for Wish or Miracle itself...
This is getting even more confusing. Regardless, if we have this level 3 wizard who really wants to try to make the Tome of Clear Thought +5, the requirements that he is bypassing are the ability to cast wish. Since he no longer has a spell requirement, does the item have no minimum caster level anymore? Or does the minimum caster level remain 17, which is the minimum caster level required to cast wish, had he not ignored that prerequisite? If it is truly a DC 27, that is a rather easy DC to make for him. If it is Spellcraft, this wizard could make that DC with an 11 or better on a D20 roll (assuming the wizard I described above). That is a 50% chance of success and only a 30% chance of creating a cursed tome. There is only a 20% of complete failure. Are those odds acceptable? Should I be concerned about my 3rd level wizard attempting to create +5 tomes?
I just don't understand the rules at all. Could someone please break them down a little more clearly for me?
| selios |
Two- I do not believe you can take 10 when there is a consequence for failure. And creating a cursed item is certain a bad consequence.
I don't know if there is something about this in the PRPG magic items section, but according to standar rules, you can take 10 if there is consequence of failure, as long as you're not threatened. But you can't take 20.
Tamec
|
Two- I do not believe you can take 10 when there is a consequence for failure. And creating a cursed item is certain a bad consequence.
Actually you can take 10 on a skill unless it states you cannot take 10 in a certain action (such as use magic device), or the character is under stress or distracted (such as in combat).
"Taking 10: When your character is not being threatened or distracted, you may choose to take 10...In most cases, taking 10 is purely a safety measure —you know (or expect) that an average roll will succeed but fear that a poor roll might fail, so you elect to settle for the average roll (a 10). Taking 10 is especially useful in situations where a particularly high roll wouldn’t help (such as using Climb to ascend a knotted rope, or using Heal to give a wounded PC long-term care)."
It is Taking 20 that you can't do if there is risk of failure
"Taking 20: When you have plenty of time (generally 2 minutes for a skill that can normally be checked in 1 round, one full-round action, or one standard action), you are faced with no threats or distractions, and the skill being attempted carries no penalties for failure, you can take 20."
*Qoutes are from 3.5 PHB since I can't find it in the Beta
You can take 10 on a climb check, if your skill is high enough or you have enough assistance (knotted ropes, stronger adventurers helping) which allows you can climb a wall. But if you are rock climbing without safety gear, alone you can't take 20 because there's a chance of rolling a 1 and going splat.
| Thazar |
Thazar wrote:Two- I do not believe you can take 10 when there is a consequence for failure. And creating a cursed item is certain a bad consequence.Actually you can take 10 on a skill unless it states you cannot take 10 in a certain action (such as use magic device), or the character is under stress or distracted (such as in combat).
OK, Thanks for the clarification. I had always linked the take 10 and take 20 as similar actions in my mind if there was a risk of failure. Good to know.
However, I do think a DM could make a valid argument with his players about taking 10 for magic item creation when you lack the prerequisites to being very similar to the rule prohibition about taking ten with Use Magic Device. The thought behind that rule would seam to follow to "faking" having a spell/ability/level for magic item creation. But at this point that would be a house rule.
| Neil Spalter |
So, does no one else understand the rules? Is anyone else interested in how they are supposed to work, or are people pretty much just houseruling whatever they want? Do most people think it is simple enough that it doesn't need clarification? I'm still really confused.
I guess my main questions are for wondrous items, as most other items are rather easy to figure out.
Is a 3rd level character capable of creating one of the belts or headbands which increases stats (it lists the item caster level at 8)? If he is able to, would he create the item at CL 8? Or would he create the item at his caster level of 3? Which caster level should he use for Spellcraft DCs to successfully create the item? His own caster level, or the suggested item caster level?
What does it mean to ignore prerequisites by increasing the DC by +5? If the prerequisite includes a spell, does that mean that you don't need the spell prepared if you increase the DC by +5? What about spells with costly material components?
Do the rules make it so that a sorcerer can make magic items of any sorcerer/wizard spell, even without it as a spell known, provided that they increase the spellcraft DC by 5? If that is the case, do they still need spell slots of the appropriate level as though they were casting the spell? Are those spell slots still considered "expended" from magic item creation?
Could sorcerers and wizards make items that ordinarily require cleric spells? Or clerics make items requiring sorcerer/wizard spells? How many prerequisites would that be overcoming? One (because they don't have the spell), two (because no spell and wrong class), three (no spell, wrong class, wrong type of spell slot)? Is that simply something for the DM to decide?
Does the Use Magic Device skill have any use in item creation? The guide doesn't mention it, but can the normal Use Magic Device abilities be used to bypass prerequisites? For instance, it is a DC 30 UMD check to emulate alignment, a DC 20 to emulate a class ability, or a DC 25 to emulate a race. These would be useful if a human cleric with low spellcraft wanted to create a Cloak of Elvenkind, and for some reason, they have maximum ranks in Use Magic Device, it may be easier for them to emulate the elven race rather than increase their Spellcraft DC by +5. Would that be acceptable? Are there any additional uses of the skill for item creation?
| Neil Spalter |
Well, in response to my own questions, here are the answers that I am considering as house rules to try out. If anyone has any suggestions, please voice them:
Is a 3rd level character capable of creating one of the belts or headbands which increases stats (it lists the item caster level at 8)? If he is able to, would he create the item at CL 8? Or would he create the item at his caster level of 3? Which caster level should he use for Spellcraft DCs to successfully create the item? His own caster level, or the suggested item caster level?
I think that a 3rd level character should be capable of attempting to create such items. He would create the item at his caster level of 3. He would be required to add a +5 to the DC for being lower than the "recommended" caster level for the item. Additionally, he would use the item's recommended caster level when determining the DC. So, his DC would be 5+8+5 = 18 (or 23 if you read below). If he succeeded, he would have an item with a caster level of 3, but with the effects he wanted.
What does it mean to ignore prerequisites by increasing the DC by +5? If the prerequisite includes a spell, does that mean that you don't need the spell prepared if you increase the DC by +5? What about spells with costly material components?
For this one, I am thinking of experimenting. My first reaction is to err on the side of flexibility, allowing spells to be ignored. Now, the rules say that if there is a spell, the spellcaster must be of a sufficiently high level to be able to cast the spell. If someone ignores the spell by increasing the DC by 5, I think that in addition to that +5, they would need to increase the DC by an additional +5 if they don't meet the caster level required. So, the 3rd level wizard could attempt to create the Tome of Clear Thought +5, but the DC would be insanely difficult. Now, failing to meet the caster level required, I'm thinking, should actually pose a variable penalty rather than a flat +5. Perhaps a +1 to the DC for each caster level lacking? So, the 3rd level wizard trying to create a 17th level item would need to increase the DC by +14, in addition to the +5 for not meeting the item caster level, and another +5 for not meeting the Wish prerequisite. Now, with all of those penalties, the DC would be 46, making it solidly out of reach for a 3rd level caster (although very easy to create a VERY expensive cursed item that with a single detect magic should be incredibly apparent that it is indeed less than a true version of the tome). A 16th level caster, however, might have an easier time with this. The DC for the 16th level caster would be 5+17+5+5+1 = 33. And the DC for the 17th level caster who opts not to prepare wish would be 5+17+5 = 27. And the 17th level caster who does prepare it would be 22.
I still don't know what to do about costly material components, as the tome itself doesn't seem to gain that cost. I'm thinking it should be handled on an individual basis. If the item's cost seems to take into account a costly material component, I would think that it still must be provided, even if the spell is being ignored.
Do the rules make it so that a sorcerer can make magic items of any sorcerer/wizard spell, even without it as a spell known, provided that they increase the spellcraft DC by 5? If that is the case, do they still need spell slots of the appropriate level as though they were casting the spell? Are those spell slots still considered "expended" from magic item creation?
I'm going to say yes to all of them. Example: A sorcerer wants to make a wand of fireballs, but he didn't take Fireball as a spell known. He is a 6th level sorcerer. He must expend a 3rd level spell slot each day. He must increase his spellcraft DC by +5 since he is not using the spell.
Now, let's say that he is a 5th level sorcerer. Instead, he must increase the DC by 5 (because he doesn't know Fireball), but he must increase the DC by another 5 (because he is not expending the 3rd level spell slot), and then increase the DC by another 1 (because he is one caster level too low to create the item). In addition, the sorcerer must expend a number of spell slots equal to the spell slot that was required (so he must expect three levels of spell slots). This provides a decent minimum. Now, the 3rd level wizard won't be capable of attempting to create the Tome of Clear Thought +5 (as he won't have enough levels of spells to fulfill the 9th level spell requirement). By the time he is of high enough level to attempt it, the spellcraft DC will still likely be out of reach.
Could sorcerers and wizards make items that ordinarily require cleric spells? Or clerics make items requiring sorcerer/wizard spells? How many prerequisites would that be overcoming? One (because they don't have the spell), two (because no spell and wrong class), three (no spell, wrong class, wrong type of spell slot)? Is that simply something for the DM to decide?
I'm going to say, sure, why not. It would be 3 prereqs bypassed (making the DC a minimum of +15). They would still be required to give up spell slots, although the fact that it is of the wrong type of magic would not mitigate any of the +15 factors. If they were not high enough caster level to be capable of creating the item, the DC would increase by an additional +5, then an additional +5 for failing to have the correct level spell slot, and would still require the spell slots to be expended for the day.
Does the Use Magic Device skill have any use in item creation? The guide doesn't mention it, but can the normal Use Magic Device abilities be used to bypass prerequisites? For instance, it is a DC 30 UMD check to emulate alignment, a DC 20 to emulate a class ability, or...
I would say yes, normal rules for spellcraft can be used to mitigate specific prerequisites. One cannot use Use Magic Device to emulate caster level unless you are a special class that overrules this general rule (see the Artificer class from Eberron).
How do these house rules look? Any comments or suggestions? Am I describing the way I am thinking clearly?
| Neil Spalter |
Looking at it again, I think that might be too complicated. Fortunately, the item crafter has only made things for which he meets all of the prerequisites. But, I have no clue what I am going to do if and when he asks to create something for which he doesn't...
Trying to keep this thread alive single-handedly, hoping someone will have some advice!
| Majuba |
You're asking some decent questions here - I'll try to review the full rules later and get back to you.
You should read this thread announcing the magic item pdf, it has some likely changes already included.
Quick notes:
Caster level was not a prereq in 3.5 (despite confusing DMG language on this that was errata'd in 3.0, then repeated in 3.5). I don't believe it is a "pre-req" now, but it does impact the difficulty by influencing the DC of the check.
Fully agree, no taking 10 on magic item crafting checks. That's the point of the low DC (5+CL if you have the prereqs).
Particularly important is your question about the spell slots used.