So often you hear the phrase "Its fantasy, anything can happen" but this often cited excuse for many crazy embellishments seems to fall flat when it comes to realistic alternatives. Often with players becoming hostile toward the idea of implementing a few realistic, or historical alternatives. I cant see why we cant have both together. To that end I have expanded the current armor list to include historic alternatives for material and construction without changing any rules.
I submit this post as an attempt to encourage open discussion. Not to call out anyone or draw a line in the sand.
-Fabric Armor-
This is an expansion of the three known D&D fabric armors in a way that is easily adaptable by any player, and allows for a historic feel and detail without changing the existing rules in the slightest.
*note that every 5 layers of cloth = 1 layer of heavier materials*
5-10 of fabric = light | 15-20 layers = med | 25-30 = heavy
1-2 of stuffing = light | 3-4 layers = med | 5-6 = heavy
1-2 of leather = light | 3-4 layers = med | 5-6 = heavy
1-2 of hide = light | 3-4 layers = med | 5-6 = heavy
(1 Layers) armor max check arcane
Light - cost bonus dex penalty failure weight
padded 5g +1 +8 -0 5% 10
leather 5g +1 +8 -0 5% 10
hide 5g +1 +8 -1 10% 10
(2 Layers) armor max check arcane
Light - cost bonus dex penalty failure weight
padded 10g +2 +6 -1 10% 20
leather 10g +2 +6 -0 10% 15
hide 10g +2 +6 -2 15% 15
(3 Layers) armor max check arcane
Medium - cost bonus dex penalty failure weight
padded 15g +3 +4 -2 15% 30
leather 15g +3 +4 -1 15% 25
hide 15g +3 +4 -3 20% 25
(4 Layers) armor max check arcane
Medium - cost bonus dex penalty failure weight
padded 40g +4 +2 -3 20% 40
leather 40g +4 +2 -2 20% 35
hide 40g +4 +2 -4 25% 35
(5 Layers) armor max check arcane
Heavy - cost bonus dex penalty failure weight
padded 80g +5 +1 -4 25% 50
leather 80g +5 +1 -3 25% 45
hide 80g +5 +1 -5 30% 45
(6 Layers) armor max check arcane
Heavy - cost bonus dex penalty failure weight
padded 160g +6 +0 -5 30% 60
leather 160g +6 +0 -4 30% 55
hide 160g +6 +0 -6 35% 55
The historic Charles VI garment is one example of a historical fabric armor with seven layers of cloth and with two layers of raw cotton wool as stuffing. It is layered like this:
2 layers of linen
1 layer of cotton wool
2 layers of linen
1 layer of cotton woll
2 layers of linen
1 layer of silk brocade
When cross referenced with the fabric armor charts it comes out as a piece of cloth armor the equivalent of our current Hide armor (3 layers hide)
I can see arguments for or against this, but historically, its on point.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
-Organic Alternatives- for studded, brigandine, scale, splint, etc.
HORN: The stuff lantern panes are made from, usually from Bull horn. But also used as a catch-all term for any hard bony material from other sources used as a substitute for metal in armor when metals are scarce. These are bone, horn, horse hooves(the most used source)
+5 pounds per weight class since the rule is that these materials are not as efficient as metal, they require more material.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
-Class Division-
This is merely a tool I use to help design NPCs and a means to explain how some armors are simply better, and more expensive, than others. Its not written in stone and obviously any class can wear fabric armors. Again this changes none of the preexisting rules.(see above example of Charles VI)
Villain Class Knightly Class Noble Class
LIGHT LIGHT LIGHT
studded jack - -
brigandine maille shirt -
MEDIUM MEDIUM MEDIUM
scale banded ring breast plate
coat of plates maille anima
HEAVY HEAVY HEAVY
splint heavy banded half plate
heavy scale heavy maille full plate
SUPER
dwarven stone(!)
heavy full plate
Its not readily apparent by this, but these newer, historic armors follow the same lesser/greater pattern within the weight classes as the fabric charts. for example half plate and full plate are both heavy armors, but one is superior to the other. The social classes add a further division of quality.
-LIGHT- armor max check arcane
cost bonus dex penalty failure weight
padded 5g +1 +8 -0 5% 10
leather 10g +2 +6 -0 10% 15
studded jack +2 +6
brigandine 25g +3 +5 -1 15% 20
maille shirt 100g +4 +4 -2 20% 25
-MEDIUM- armor max check arcane
cost bonus dex penalty failure weight
hide 15g +3 +4 -3 20% 25
scale 50g +4 +3 -4 25% 30
coat of plates +5 +1
banded ring +4 +3
maille 150g +5 +2 -5 30% 40
breastplate 200g +5 +3 -4 25% 30
anima +6 +2
-HEAVY- armor max check arcane
cost bonus dex penalty failure weight
splint 200g +6 +0 -7 40% 45
heavy scale +6 +1
heavy banded 250g +6 +1 -6 35% 35
heavy maille +7 +1
half plate 600g +7 +0 -7 40% 50
full plate 1500g +8 +1 -6 35% 50
-SUPER- armor max check arcane
cost bonus dex penalty failure weight
dwarven stone(!) 1750g +9 +0 -7 40% 80
heavy full plate 2500g +11 +1 -8 50% 90
----Speed----
(30) (20)
Light - 30 20
Medium - 20 15
Heavy - 20* 15*
Super - 15* 10*
(*) When running you move at triple speed, not quadruple
(!)For non dwarves this armor falls into the Super Heavy category with the same movement penalties as heavy full plate
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
I hope this hasn't been too hard to read. The forum seemed to swallow an earlier version i typed up and backspace offered no mercy either. I am going to try my hand at explaining some of the newer names and armors I introduced. Again, all without changing a single preexisting rule. I did -somewhat- change the definition of one of the armors, remained in the realm of D&D and, I think, you will find it reasonable.
Anima: This is a medieval form of plate which in form closely resembled the segmented roman armor associated with the legionary soldier of the empire. This armor used sliding rivets for articulation rather than the integral leather straps of the Roman armor. The trend has been in later years to attribute this form or armor to "banded" But as you will see it will be easier to use Anima for both remarkably similar armors to avoid confusion.
Banded ring: A lighter form of our classic "banded" which in earlier d&d was based upon rows of closely sewn rings or washers with "bands" of material set between the rings. The d&d version was in turn based upon misunderstood iconography which most likely represented plain maille armor.
Brigandine: Our Studded. Small plates riveted into a piece or fabric material. All you see is the studs of the rivets.
Coat of plates: As Brigandine or studded, but with larger plates riveted into a fabric coat. This was probably the first real attempt to reinforce maille. I felt it deserved inclusion as a type of villain/peasant armor in its own right.
Heavy banded: A heavier suit of banded.
Heavy maille: Same as above, such armors existed and were probably a doubling of the links over vital areas.
Heavy scale: ayup
Studded jack: A brigandine vest.
There you have it. I will be using something like this during my next game, I think. The intention was to have more detail, and a feeling of authenticity, alongside the existing D&D rules. Not stepping on anyone's toes or making changes someone might not like. The expansion follows a clear pattern which I enjoyed working out.
Let me know what you think!
The forum ate up my spacing. I'll try and fix it.
*edit* I'm at a loss.. Is there a reason why it has to swallow spaces?
i'd appreciate advice from those familiar with these forums.
(I just started posting here and everything just jumped up as a surprise to me. The forum ate the spaces and then no ([code][/code]) and then completely different fonts between when you type and the displayed post and then one time only editing. I did my best to preserve the readability of the original post. I apologize for the scrambled eggs numbers above earlier. Even now I am sure it wont look right. I'm sorry, its as though this forum is designed to frustrate.)
So often you hear the phrase "Its fantasy, anything can happen" but this often cited excuse for many crazy embellishments seems to fall flat when it comes to realistic alternatives. Often with players becoming hostile toward the idea of implementing a few realistic, or historical alternatives. I cant see why we cant have both together. To that end I have expanded the current armor list to include historic alternatives for material and construction without changing any rules.
I submit this post as an attempt to encourage open discussion. Not to call out anyone or draw a line in the sand.
-Fabric Armor-
This is an expansion of the three known D&D fabric armors in a way that is easily adaptable by any player, and allows for a historic feel and detail without changing the existing rules in the slightest.
*note that every 5 layers of cloth = 1 layer of heavier materials*
Light - - - - - - - Medium - - - - - - - Heavy
5-10 of fabric ____ 15-20 layers _______ 25-30 layers
1-2 of stuffing ___ 3-4 layers _________ 5-6 layers
1-2 of leather ____ 3-4 layers _________ 5-6 layers
1-2 of hide _______ 3-4 layers _________ 5-6 layers
(1 Layers) - - - - - - - - - armor - max - check - - arcane
Light - - - - - - - cost - - bonus - dex - penalty - failure - weight
padded ____________ 5g _____ +1 ____ +8 __ -0 ______ 5% ______ 10
leather ___________ 5g _____ +1 ____ +8 __ -0 ______ 5% ______ 10
hide ______________ 5g _____ +1 ____ +8 __ -1 ______ 10% _____ 10
(2 Layers) - - - - - - - - - armor - max - check - - arcane
Light - - - - - - - cost - - bonus - dex - penalty - failure - weight
padded ____________ 10g ____ +2 ____ +6 __ -1 ______ 10% _____ 20
leather ___________ 10g ____ +2 ____ +6 __ -0 ______ 10% _____ 15
hide ______________ 10g ____ +2 ____ +6 __ -2 ______ 15% _____ 15
(3 Layers) - - - - - - - - - armor - max - check - - arcane
Medium- - - - - - - cost - - bonus - dex - penalty - failure - weight
padded ____________ 15g ____ +3 ____ +4 __ -2 ______ 15% _____ 30
leather ___________ 15g ____ +3 ____ +4 __ -1 ______ 15% _____ 25
hide ______________ 15g ____ +3 ____ +4 __ -3 ______ 20% _____ 25
(4 Layers) - - - - - - - - - armor - max - check - - arcane
Medium- - - - - - - cost - - bonus - dex - penalty - failure - weight
padded ____________ 40g ____ +4 ____ +2 __ -3 ______ 20% _____ 40
leather ___________ 40g ____ +4 ____ +2 __ -2 ______ 20% _____ 35
hide ______________ 40g ____ +4 ____ +2 __ -4 ______ 25% _____ 35
(5 Layers) - - - - - - - - - armor - max - check - - arcane
Heavy - - - - - - - cost - - bonus - dex - penalty - failure - weight
padded ____________ 80g ____ +5 ____ +1 __ -4 ______ 25% _____ 50
leather ___________ 80g ____ +5 ____ +1 __ -3 ______ 25% _____ 45
hide ______________ 80g ____ +5 ____ +1 __ -5 ______ 30% _____ 45
(6 Layers) - - - - - - - - - armor - max - check - - arcane
Heavy - - - - - - - cost - - bonus - dex - penalty - failure - weight
padded ____________ 160g ___ +6 ____ +0 __ -5 ______ 30% _____ 60
leather ___________ 160g ___ +6 ____ +0 __ -4 ______ 30% _____ 55
hide ______________ 160g ___ +6 ____ +0 __ -6 ______ 35% _____ 55
The historic Charles VI garment is one example of a historical fabric armor with seven layers of cloth and with two layers of raw cotton wool as stuffing. It is layered like this:
2 layers of linen
1 layer of cotton wool
2 layers of linen
1 layer of cotton wool
2 layers of linen
1 layer of silk brocade
When cross referenced with the fabric armor charts it comes out as a piece of cloth armor the equivalent of our current Hide armor (3 layers hide)
I can see arguments for or against this, but historically, its on point.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
-Organic Alternatives- for studded, brigandine, scale, splint, etc.
HORN: The stuff lantern panes are made from, usually from Bull horn. But also used as a catch-all term for any hard bony material from other sources used as a substitute for metal in armor when metals are scarce. These are bone, horn, horse hooves(the most used source)
+5 pounds per weight class since the rule is that these materials are not as efficient as metal, they require more material.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
-Class Division-
This is merely a tool I use to help design NPCs and a means to explain how some armors are simply better, and more expensive, than others. Its not written in stone and obviously any class can wear fabric armors. Again this changes none of the preexisting rules.(see above example of Charles VI)
Villain Class - -Knightly Class - -Noble Class
LIGHT - - - - - -LIGHT - - - - - - LIGHT
studded jack - - ****- - - - - - - ****
brigandine - - - maille shirt - - -****
MEDIUM - - - - - MEDIUM - - - - - -MEDIUM
scale - - - - - -banded ring - - - breast plate
coat of plates - maille - - - - - -anima
HEAVY - - - - - -HEAVY - - - - - - HEAVY
splint - - - - - heavy banded - - -half plate
heavy scale - - -heavy maille - - -full plate
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -SUPER
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -dwarven stone(!)
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -heavy full plate
Its not readily apparent by this, but these newer, historic armors follow the same lesser/greater pattern within the weight classes as the fabric charts. for example half plate and full plate are both heavy armors, but one is superior to the other. The social classes add a further division of quality.
LIGHT- - - - - - - - - - - - armor - max - check - - arcane
- - - - - - - - - - cost - - bonus - dex - penalty - failure - weight
padded ____________ 5g _____ +1 ____ +8 __ -0 ______ 5% ______ 10
leather ____________10g ____ +2 ____ +6 __ -0 ______ 10% _____ 15
studded jack _______________ +2 ____ +6
brigandine ________ 25g ____ +3 ____ +5 __ -1 ______ 15% _____ 20
maille shirt ______ 100g ___ +4 ____ +4 __ -2 ______ 20% _____ 25
MEDIUM - - - - - - - - - - - armor - max - check - - arcane
- - - - - - - - - - cost - - bonus - dex - penalty - failure - weight
hide ______________ 15g ____ +3 ____ +4 __ -3 ______ 20% _____ 25
scale _____________ 50g ____ +4 ____ +3 __ -4 ______ 25% _____ 30
coat of plates _____________ +5 ____ +1
banded ring ________________ +4 ____ +3
maille ____________ 150g ___ +5 ____ +2 __ -5 ______ 30% _____ 40
breastplate _______ 200g ___ +5 ____ +3 __ -4 ______ 25% _____ 30
anima ______________________ +6 ____ +2
HEAVY- - - - - - - - - - - - armor - max - check - - arcane
- - - - - - - - - - cost - - bonus - dex - penalty - failure - weight
splint ___________ 200g ___ +6 ____ +0 __ -7 ______ 40% _____ 45
heavy scale ________________ +6 ____ +1
heavy banded ______ 250g ___ +6 ____ +1 __ -6 ______ 35% _____ 35
heavy maille _______________ +7 ____ +1
half plate ________ 600g ___ +7 ____ +0 __ -7 ______ 40% _____ 50
full plate ________ 1500g __ +8 ____ +1 __ -6 ______ 35% _____ 50
SUPER- - - - - - - - - - - - armor - max - check - - arcane
- - - - - - - - - - cost - - bonus - dex - penalty - failure - weight
dwarven stone@ ____ 1750g __ +9 ____ +0 __ -7 ______ 40% _____ 80
heavy full plate __ 2500g __ +11 ___ +1 __ -8 ______ 50% _____ 90
----Speed----(30) (20)
Light - - - - 30 - 20
Medium - - - -20 - 15
Heavy - - - - 20*- 15*
Super - - - - 15*- 10*
(*) When running you move at triple speed, not quadruple
(@)For non dwarves this armor falls into the Super Heavy category with the same movement penalties as heavy full plate
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
I hope this hasn't been too hard to read. The forum seemed to swallow an earlier version i typed up and backspace offered no mercy either. I am going to try my hand at explaining some of the newer names and armors I introduced. Again, all without changing a single preexisting rule. I did -somewhat- change the definition of one of the armors, remained in the realm of D&D and, I think, you will find it reasonable.
Anima: This is a medieval form of plate which in form closely resembled the segmented roman armor associated with the legionary soldier of the empire. This armor used sliding rivets for articulation rather than the integral leather straps of the Roman armor. The trend has been in later years to attribute this form or armor to "banded" But as you will see it will be easier to use Anima for both remarkably similar armors to avoid confusion.
Banded ring: A lighter form of our classic "banded" which in earlier d&d was based upon rows of closely sewn rings or washers with "bands" of material set between the rings. The d&d version was in turn based upon misunderstood iconography which most likely represented plain maille armor.
Brigandine: Our Studded. Small plates riveted into a piece or fabric material. All you see is the studs of the rivets.
Coat of plates: As Brigandine or studded, but with larger plates riveted into a fabric coat. This was probably the first real attempt to reinforce maille. I felt it deserved inclusion as a type of villain/peasant armor in its own right.
Heavy banded: A heavier suit of banded.
Heavy maille: Same as above, such armors existed and were probably a doubling of the links over vital areas.
Heavy scale: ayup
Studded jack: A brigandine vest.
There you have it. I will be using something like this during my next game, I think. The intention was to have more detail, and a feeling of authenticity, alongside the existing D&D rules. Not stepping on anyone's toes or making changes someone might not like. The expansion follows a clear pattern which I enjoyed working out.
Let me know what you think!