I would like to suggest giving Overhand Chop the same boost as Backswing with a higher BAB. My suggestion would be BAB 6 or 8.
My motivation:
- At higher levels the damage output compared to a full attack becomes pathetic.
- Even with triple strength bonus a full attack does more damage.
- It's one of the few feats that can be used with Spring Attack.
- Overhand Chop can not be combined with other "as a standard action" feats like Devastating Blow.
- Against non-crit immune creatures Devastating Blow is still incredibly more powerful.
Overhand chop is only worth using if you have a rediculous STR (like a giant) and very low BAB... a creature that doesn't actually exist unless it's an orc that found a belt of Str + 10.
I agree this feat seems underpowered and of limited use. The two handed weapon fighters at my table have ignored it completely as a result. Maybe if Overhand Chop and Backswing were merged into one feat, it might be more appealing.
OK, I looked into it. I'm still by my original post.
Example - first level barbarian, rolls a 18 str, +2 racial, +4 raging, puts him at a ridiculous 24 (+7 bonus) This equates to +10 normal, +14 with the feat. Makes sense, OK, 4 damage at first level, that's good, better than PA's 2.
Fifth level comes around, 19 Str, +2 racial, +4 raging, +4 enhancement (spell/item/whatever), +2 something else bonus (sacred/profane... something munchkin-ish from a weird potion) puts him at a strength of 31 (+10 bonus) This equates to +15 normal, +20 with overhead swing, an improvement of 1. PA's gone from 2 to 10 by this point (the negatives to hit are really miniscule compared to the massive STR on this guy anyway).
I guess the genius here is combining them into a SUPER munchkin character. But, I figured that since PA was nerfed, they'd be trying to level the playing field when it comes to rediculous damage...
I guess it's just that I don't like PA being turned into a feat and a separate tree that, when added together (for barbarians, almost exclusively) create the old PA. I.E. damage for frontlines to keep them in pace with the spell casters.
Damn, I wrote strenght instead of strength in the title. *sigh*
Anyway, I'd really like to see triple strength bonus for Overhand Chop at some point. If this would be too good for a single feat it could grant the triple bonus only if you also take the follow-up feat Backswing.
One last question. Can Overhand Chop be combined with Devastating Blow or other "as a standard action" feats? I always though it's not posible but fighting defensively is also defined as a standard action and, at least in our group, it can be combined with a standard and full attack.
If so even a x2 str bonus Overhand Chop would considerably boost the damage from Devastating Blow. If that is the case it would make high crit weapons even more desirable and I would really like to see some rule change that makes Devastating Blow a fixed crit multiplier or also factoring in the thread range of the weapon. See this posting for details
And now I try to use my twoo weeks vacation to get rid of that %$!*# typewriter's cramp.
One last question. Can Overhand Chop be combined with Devastating Blow or other "as a standard action" feats? I always though it's not posible but fighting defensively is also defined as a standard action and, at least in our group, it can be combined with a standard and full attack.
Sorry for the confusion. I should've read the rules more carefully. But I think it's rather strange that you can do a Power Attack or Backswing while fighting defensively but not an Overhand Chop or Devastating Blow.
Fear not, last post from me for a while. Most complicated devices for the next two weeks will be my ebook reader and a scuba diving computer. :)
In retrospect to the "underpoweredness" of this feat (which can be subject to debate), would it be too powerful to allow it to just be a, say, swift action? Or at will? I allowed this with our party's Barbarian, and I haven't noted anything new (then again, he's only third level, so its not like I would see any difference anyways).
Then again, the above suggestion does make the second feat, Backswing, pretty much useless, meaning it would have to be cut... but is that a bad thing?
I agree this feat seems underpowered and of limited use. The two handed weapon fighters at my table have ignored it completely as a result. Maybe if Overhand Chop and Backswing were merged into one feat, it might be more appealing.
Orc barbarian in my campaign is loving it.
Takeing them through Savage Tide.
3 of the NPC's have been one shotted by him (granted he critted with a Great Axe).
20 Strength 24 when raging 28 if he also has Bulls strength fron the druid.
So when the big fight against Rowyn came up first round he got a good roll for initiative. 24 Strength overhand chop Crit.
+14 damage due to strength rolled a 4 on damge made it 18, triple damge for crit 54 points of damage. Made it a bit hard to keep her alive for later.
At low level its a great feast for a 2 handed weapon user, they don't have multiple attacks so can move to the opponent and then "Overhand Chop".
Druid has determined that his best Rangd DPS spells are Snake Swiftness and Mass Snake Swiftness.
It can be used at higher levels when you do not get a full attack, move and thwn standard action overhand chop is better then move and make a singlw attack as a standard action.
It can be used at higher levels when you do not get a full attack, move and thwn standard action overhand chop is better then move and make a singlw attack as a standard action.
Unlike other gateway feats like Weapon Focus it doesn't have any synergy with it's follow up feats.
With a x2 str bonus multiplier the net gain in damage output is rather pathetic. I say give mobile melee types some love and bump it to x3 at some point. Even so the damage output is nowhere near a full attack and still lower than a Devastating Blow with a x3 weapon.
Let's take a level 12 fighter with Str 26, the usual feat chains(Greater Wepon Focus, Devastating Blow, Vital Strike) and a Greataxe +3 as an example:
Spoiler:
Single attack options:
Normal
+27 1d12+21
Average damage against
AC 30: 24.8
AC 33: 20.6
Overhand Chop (x2 str bonus)
+27 1d12+25
Average damage against
AC 30: 28.4
AC 33: 23.6
Overhand Chop (x3 str bonus)
+27 1d12+33
Average damage against
AC 30: 35.5
AC 33: 29.6
Devastating Blow
+22 1d12+63
Average damage against
AC 30: 45.2
AC 33: 34.8
-----------------
Full Attack options:
Normal
+27/+22/+17 1d12+21/1d12+21/1d12+21
Average damage against
AC 30: 53.6
AC 33: 41.2
Backswing
+27/+22/+17 1d12+33/1d12+21/1d12+21
Average damage against
AC 30: 64.4
AC 33: 50.2
Backswing + Vital Strike
+27/+22 2d12+33/2d12+21
Average damage against
AC 30: 63.5
AC 33: 51.5
AC 30 would be the average CR 14 monster, AC 33 a CR 16 monster
Note: Except Devastating Blow I did not factor in criticals into the calculcations.
OT: Notice how Vital Strike does not raise the damage output? That changes with the forth attack at BAB 16.
