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Yes... cmbt expertise should stay BAB (up to +5/-5) so that it remains usefule to regular fighters.
The current wording is "use INT bonus or BAB, whichever is lower", but it should be "use INT bonus or BAB, whichever is greater; if BAB is greater than 5, use INT bonus or 5, whichever is greater"
This way, low INT fighters still get to use +5/-5 combat expertise, but the high INT fighters (INT +6 and beyond) get to use their greater INT.
Thoughts?
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Yes... cmbt expertise should stay BAB (up to +5/-5) so that it remains usefule to regular fighters.
The current wording is "use INT bonus or BAB, whichever is lower", but it should be "use INT bonus or BAB, whichever is greater; if BAB is greater than 5, use INT bonus or 5, whichever is greater"
This way, low INT fighters still get to use +5/-5 combat expertise, but the high INT fighters (INT +6 and beyond) get to use their greater INT.
Thoughts?
I don't think I agree here. Lets not get to crazy with it. I want to fix it not make it the next great thing that every character has.
If you make it Int or BAB whichever is higher then your wizard takes it, (like he cares if he takes a -5 on a ranged touch attack) cranks his AC way up and then tanks on top of casting.
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Yes... cmbt expertise should stay BAB (up to +5/-5) so that it remains usefule to regular fighters.
The current wording is "use INT bonus or BAB, whichever is lower", but it should be "use INT bonus or BAB, whichever is greater; if BAB is greater than 5, use INT bonus or 5, whichever is greater"
This way, low INT fighters still get to use +5/-5 combat expertise, but the high INT fighters (INT +6 and beyond) get to use their greater INT.
Thoughts?
I don't think I agree here. Lets not get to crazy with it. I want to fix it not make it the next great thing that every character has.
If you make it Int or BAB whichever is higher then your wizard takes it, (like he cares if he takes a -5 on a ranged touch attack) cranks his AC way up and then tanks on top of casting.
Can't do. Combat Expertise is for melee only. Here's the feat, quoted from the SRD:
COMBAT EXPERTISE [GENERAL]
Prerequisite: Int 13.
Benefit: When you use the attack action or the full attack action in melee, you can take a penalty of as much as –5 on your attack roll and add the same number (+5 or less) as a dodge bonus to your Armor Class. This number may not exceed your base attack bonus. The changes to attack rolls and Armor Class last until your next action.
Normal: A character without the Combat Expertise feat can fight defensively while using the attack or full attack action to take a –4 penalty on attack rolls and gain a +2 dodge bonus to Armor Class.
Special: A fighter may select Combat Expertise as one of his fighter bonus feats.
Furthermore, casting spells does not qualify as either an "attack action" or a "full attack action," as these are both defined in the PHB. Making an attack roll as part of a spell, a feat, a class ability or whatever else is entirely different than performing an "attack" or "full attack" action (note the term "full attack" and not "full round") Plus, the feat really nails it down by mentioning that it's for melee only (i.e. if your DM is kind enough to softball the rules into having you use this feat with melee touch spells, then that's one thing, but I'd still not allow it as it's for good old melee attacks or full attacks only; but to allow it for "ranged" anything, let alone ranged spells, you're really doing some selecting reading here...
Moreover, PRPG rules go one step further, stating that this can be used only with "melee weapons", so I don't see what the big stink would be if a fighter with 22 INT (as unlikely as this could be) takes -6 to hit in order to gain +6 AC for one round...
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I posted this elsewhere:
Defensive Fighting, Improved (Combat) – Supercedes Combat Expertise.
Prerequisites: BAB +1
Benefit: When fighting defensively, you take a –1 penalty to attacks and receive a +1 dodge bonus to AC. This penalty to attacks (and corresponding AC bonus) can be increased by +1 for every 2 points of your base attack bonus (to a maximum of +11 at BAB +20).
Special: If you are actively using a shield for defense (not merely using an animated shield or a shield spell) the dodge bonus to AC from this feat is doubled (maximum +22 at BAB +20).
Normal: Fighting defensively gives you a static –4 to attacks and +2 dodge bonus to AC. Total defense provides a static +4 dodge bonus to AC.Notice that it does all of the following:
Incorporates Epic Meepo's "double for shields" concept;
Specifically excludes animated shields;
Eliminates the Int prereq and scaling, instead scaling by BAB (so that martial classes get the most benefit);
References existing defensive fighting mechanics, instead of pretending it's a whole new set of rules.
This would be a good fix but perhaps an improved feat needs to be added in around +10 BAB to use greater than a -5 from attack
Alright I got a two (2) questions:
Why is sword and board so bad?
And
Why do people think that a shield isn't a weapon?
First a shield doesn't just provide a "measly" +2 to AC... It provides the potential for up to +7 to AC. Not many things give shield bonuses and those that do generally don't give high bonuses.
Watch some actual reenactment. A properly wielded shield is almost (if not as) dangerous as a sword is. The idea that you just hold the shield there and let someone whack at it annoys me almost as much as someone telling me you can't do bludgeoning damage with a sword or that a flanged mace doesn't do piercing damage (the side of the blade, it's wonderful that way or the pommel/basket, why do you think they are so big?).
Sorry I didn't express myself clearly:
Why does it seem to suck in game?
Granted to make full use of shield mastery and shield fighting right now you need a Dex of 17. That hurts some. However fighters right now should probably want a good Dex. With Armor training it helps their AC, Combat Reflexes gives them more tactics to work with becuase of the possibility of extra hits, and it improves one of their weak saves.
In return for getting to a Dex 17 and spending 5 feats you get:
Two weapon fighting no penalties.
If you hit with a shield bash a free bull rush
+2~+7 to AC as a shield bonus (even if you attack)
Same bonus to hit and damage with your shield (more likely to hit with the shield actually)
And while smashing a foe a few times for alot of damage each time is fun, a sword and board'er can hit multiple times for a moderate amount of damage and still have the AC to hopefully ignore some hits.
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However if the idea is that the tower shield itself isn't good enough, I think I could agree with that. What good is cover if it doesn't protect from the things you need protecting from (i.e. spells)?
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This would be a good fix but perhaps an improved feat needs to be added in around +10 BAB to use greater than a -5 from attackI posted this elsewhere:
Defensive Fighting, Improved (Combat) – Supercedes Combat Expertise.
Prerequisites: BAB +1
Benefit: When fighting defensively, you take a –1 penalty to attacks and receive a +1 dodge bonus to AC. This penalty to attacks (and corresponding AC bonus) can be increased by +1 for every 2 points of your base attack bonus (to a maximum of +11 at BAB +20).
Special: If you are actively using a shield for defense (not merely using an animated shield or a shield spell) the dodge bonus to AC from this feat is doubled (maximum +22 at BAB +20).
Normal: Fighting defensively gives you a static –4 to attacks and +2 dodge bonus to AC. Total defense provides a static +4 dodge bonus to AC.Notice that it does all of the following:
Incorporates Epic Meepo's "double for shields" concept;
Specifically excludes animated shields;
Eliminates the Int prereq and scaling, instead scaling by BAB (so that martial classes get the most benefit);
References existing defensive fighting mechanics, instead of pretending it's a whole new set of rules.
I love this feat Mad Alchemist... to make shield to combat expertise what two-handed weapons are to power attack is just genius!
I think that some of the problem is that AC becomes relatively irrelevant, so the damage you lose isn't worth the advantage in AC. Although I guess that now Power Attack has been nerfed, sword and board might be better as an option simply because the alternative got worse.
But let's look at benny for a minute. Even with the death of weapon swap you can't tell me he's not keeping up with the two handed fighter. Even after applying multiple damage reduction he still does more damage than the two handed fighter. In fact I would be willing to say that the 2handed is almost obsolete with the feats available already. What's more lower benny's AC by 7 and equal level CR's can hit him, but with the shield he's not likely to be hit in combat which is what AC is supposed to do, it forces people to rely on other options.