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I have seen some playtesting where players with wizard schools or sorcerer bloodlines that allow the first level "acid dart" type abilities that they can do unlimited use with use it to simply bypass walls, doors, portcullises, treasure chest lids, coffins, etc.
My concern is that such an "at will" ability will leave traps, locks, barriers etc obsolete.
I know this is not the spirit of the first level ability - and as a DM, personally, I woulnd't tolerate the abuse, but not all DMs identify and correct such behavior adequately enough and I feel there needs to be some sort of verbage that indicates these abilities work only on "creatures" or living matter or something.
I already found a fix for my own campaigns - when a player suggested doing that.
"Well, if wizards/sorcerers are commonly able to do this - then no vault, no kings secret quarter, no hiding place, or official will ever be safe behind any barrier - then such persons needing such security will have evolved and found a way to overcome such magic as commonplace - much like hackers and anti-viruses continue to counter the other. In this world the population came together in a grand celebration when a clan of crafty dwarves figured out how to make 'acid-resistant steel' and are now the richest and most powerful clan in the world as all nations lined up to buy this priceless material. Many generations passed, and most structures, and objects are now created from such material...."
The player pouted.
But that's not the point - the point is, it potentially game-breaking if allowed to be abused.
Robert
My understanding of Object Hardness was that energy types don't bypass it and energy damage only does half damage. I've looked through the Beta but it lacks an explaination on what Hardness is and what does and doesn't affect it.
However the SRD says the following:
"Acid and sonic attacks deal damage to most objects just as they do to creatures; roll damage and apply it normally after a successful hit. Electricity and fire attacks deal half damage to most objects; divide the damage dealt by 2 before applying the hardness. Cold attacks deal one-quarter damage to most objects; divide the damage dealt by 4 before applying the hardness."
And:
"Each object has hardness—a number that represents how well it resists damage. Whenever an object takes damage, subtract its hardness from the damage. Only damage in excess of its hardness is deducted from the object’s hit points."
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My understanding of Object Hardness was that energy types don't bypass it and energy damage only does half damage. I've looked through the Beta but it lacks an explaination on what Hardness is and what does and doesn't affect it.
However the SRD says the following:
"Acid and sonic attacks deal damage to most objects just as they do to creatures; roll damage and apply it normally after a successful hit. Electricity and fire attacks deal half damage to most objects; divide the damage dealt by 2 before applying the hardness. Cold attacks deal one-quarter damage to most objects; divide the damage dealt by 4 before applying the hardness."And:
"Each object has hardness—a number that represents how well it resists damage. Whenever an object takes damage, subtract its hardness from the damage. Only damage in excess of its hardness is deducted from the object’s hit points."
True enough - and wood and rock don't have that big of a hardness - it's completely plausible that someone with unlimited acid dart etc could easily bypass locks, traps, walls, etc....
I know that this would take a while and DMs can roll over and over and over again for random monsters etc.....but lets face it - it's alot easier to deter players who abuse rules to just add verbage that these unlimited freebies are only useable vs creatures.
Robert
Well you could be a rules lawyer and say the Acid Dart targets "any foe within 30 feet". An object is not a foe, so it cannot be used to target objects.
Same with Energy Bolt.
True enough - and wood and rock don't have that big of a hardness - it's completely plausible that someone with unlimited acid dart etc could easily bypass locks, traps, walls, etc....
But can't a fighter already smash locks, traps, walls, etc. with a greatsword (or a reach weapon, if he doesn't want to get that close)? I'm not sure what the big deal is.
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But can't a fighter already smash locks, traps, walls, etc. with a greatsword (or a reach weapon, if he doesn't want to get that close)? I'm not sure what the big deal is.
True enough - and wood and rock don't have that big of a hardness - it's completely plausible that someone with unlimited acid dart etc could easily bypass locks, traps, walls, etc....
True - good point - but it makes a helluva lot of noise. :-)
And even a reach weapon is still alot closer to a trapped object than many would want to be.
Robert
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Well you could be a rules lawyer and say the Acid Dart targets "any foe within 30 feet". An object is not a foe, so it cannot be used to target objects.
Same with Energy Bolt.
I guess that'll have to do. And I'm smack the first dolt that tries to convince me that he "officially considers the wall that fell down to trap the PCs in the dungeon is a foe because it's stopping him from doing what he wants to do...."
Robert
Well you could be a rules lawyer and say the Acid Dart targets "any foe within 30 feet". An object is not a foe, so it cannot be used to target objects.
Same with Energy Bolt.
I guess that'll have to do. And I'm smack the first dolt that tries to convince me that he "officially considers the wall that fell down to trap the PCs in the dungeon is a foe because it's stopping him from doing what he wants to do...."
just make sure that there is no offensive graffiti scrawled over the walls and doors ;-)
I'm actually more concerned what the at will cantrips do for a Rogue who takes just one level as caster.
(Acid Splash - touch attack, no save, no SR - to hell with that that Hand Crossbow, Shuriken)
What's the play test experience with this?
Acid Splash is not limited to a "foe" btw.
You fire a small orb of acid at the target.
1d3 is not much, but a caster can go on all day at that [enter name of obstacle] with 1d3 minutes per 10HP
but the orcs down the hall would definitely want to lodge a complaint with the spell-slinger who's stinking up the joint.
cool walking XP, no need to search for them
unless the acid stink wakes up a real big sucker of cause
1d3 is not much, but a caster can go on all day at that [enter name of obstacle] with 1d3 minutes per 10HP
Once again, the 3.5 FAQ clarifies that acid and sonic attacks are still affected by hardness (unless the spell/power/ability says otherwise, of course).
At this point, I've got a 3rd level Druid that is using Create Water for water boarding techniques that I'm eventually going to have to deal with as he gains levels. And I agree that I'll have to adjust the world in the VIRUS/ANTI-VIRUS kind of mode eventually, but that is nothing new to RPGs and I'd rather have players who don't have to ask the party to sit and rest for a day in order to be useful. I like the bloodline powers and the endless cantrips for that reason alone.