Wizardly complications

[jakoov]

AAAARGH! The postmonster ate a lot, this evening.

Hi to all,

This evening I've been converting an NPC I created for a 3.5 campaign set in Greyhawk using the rules of Nephandum.
The NPC was an elf illusionist 7/master of the absurd 7 (a Nephandum PrC based on empowering figments). In the conversion, I decided to ditch the PrC, since some of its powers were similar to those ofm the illusionist specialist. The NPC became thus a 14th level illusionist.

During the creation, I realized something that made things quite difficult: the wizard has too many powers, and creating one really is time consuming, even more so than in 3.5...
I mean, it took about 30 minutes, not counting spells (prepared and spellbook) and feats (I had already decided both when I first created the NPC). The most time consuming thing was deciding the extra spells obtained at 2nd, 4th, 6th and so on level... Really, the creation seemed neverending.

Anyone else felt the same? Am I exaggerating (mind you, it could be :-D)?

[JoelF847]

I guess I don't see how picking a few bonus spells per day is any more complicated than picking what spells to have in your spellbook.

[Dennis da Ogre]

JoelF847 wrote:

I guess I don't see how picking a few bonus spells per day is any more complicated than picking what spells to have in your spellbook.

I understand where he's coming from. The bonus spells are treated differently from the spellbook spells and are a little more significant because they are sort of set in stone.

[orcface999]

Just a suggestion: When creating a major NPC with character classes, do it level by level, making a record at each level. That way with superficial adjustment you have a whole mess of different NPCs available.

[toyrobots]

jakoov wrote:

Anyone else felt the same? Am I exaggerating (mind you, it could be :-D)?

Yeah, I'm starting to feel the feature creep myself.

I hope they eventually decide to scale back a few changes. Some of this stuff is just uncalled for. What does the wizard really need with all these per day powers?

[spalding]

I've never really seen a problem with this on the DM side of things.

Here's what I do as a DM:

I write down the number of spells the BBEG can cast each day and which level they are (and what powers) then I just keep using slots until all the spells are gone. Yes, Yes I know this makes a sorcerer out of them, but if you don't tell the players... they never know you didn't write out the exhaustive spell list.

[James Hunnicutt]

Abraham spalding wrote:

I write down the number of spells the BBEG can cast each day and which level they are (and what powers) then I just keep using slots until all the spells are gone. Yes, Yes I know this makes a sorcerer out of them, but if you don't tell the players... they never know you didn't write out the exhaustive spell list.

Shh! Players might read these boards too.

I agree with the sentiment of the OP, but the argument could be made for many aspects of PF. Figuring out bloodlines for Sor, domains and spells for Clr, rage abilities, etc. -- it's time-consuming!

When I'm in a hurry, I start with a pregenerated character, like from the DMG or Allies & Enemies, and then tinker, tinker, tinker.

And I make it a point to give monster spellcasters all those aggravating spells the PCs use.

[Scottbert]

Making spellcasters is time-consuming. It's just the way 3.5/Pathfinder is. 4th edition shows how to solve this problem, and a lot of people seem to be unhappy with that (personally I think both have their pros and cons).

To mangle a metaphor, you can't have your cake without spending time to bake it first.

That said, you could build a cake-making machine and get some instant cake mix for it. That is, put together lists of the best spells at each level for various NPC purposes and then quickly pick off of that.

[Montalve]

all spellcasting classes are complicated
not everyone plays a successful wizard
i agree in this should not change at all

i abhor changes done in 4E, i agree that game is for children

[PetRock]

All of the classes are more complicated than they used to be. Fighter used to be nice and simple, something you had new players play, but since the advent of 3.0, fighters have been regulated to knowledgible players, ones who know who the rules and can build one effectively, or they're just ineffective.

In 3.5, a sorcerer was the simplest to play, but required definite thought when building. Barbarians and rogue followed, and so on, with druids and wizards being the most complicated to play (picking spells daily, wildshape rules, etc). Magical powers, granted by domains or schools, or bloodlines, just makes things worse. Then you add in prestige classes...

Not that is really bad. If I wanted dirty simple, I'd go to 4e, where i don't have a choice. Which I abhor.

[Thorzak]

Abraham spalding wrote:

I've never really seen a problem with this on the DM side of things.

Here's what I do as a DM:

I write down the number of spells the BBEG can cast each day and which level they are (and what powers) then I just keep using slots until all the spells are gone. Yes, Yes I know this makes a sorcerer out of them, but if you don't tell the players... they never know you didn't write out the exhaustive spell list.

I use this specifically when I'm running a high level caster at the party - I figure he's more intelligent / wise than I, and quite likely has a better idea what he'll need than I do. I generally pick a few spells to use in tandem, just to get the feel for the particualr bad guy, and then do the rest on the fly.

[Steven Tindall]

My two cents here. If you dont want to spend he time doing your homework for the next encounter the use modules or hang up your screen. I have a player build any NPC fighter types for me or I use the canned adventures. I get my players involved by having the guy that loves fighters but will never,ever gun to his head play a spellcaster build me some fighter types and then I do the cosmetic changes, I don't use them immediately they go into my NPC bank and after he's forgotten about them or when ever I need them I use them. The same goes for rouges. I handle all the spellcasters because none of the other players want to bother with spell selection or any of the other things that are part and parcel of a caster.

As an aside here. My group hates the idea of balance let the fighters have their niche the rouges have theirs and let the high flying wizards have theirs, none of my groups non spellcatsers want their big boomers nerfed any further because it decreases their survivability as well.