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I'm playing a Sorceror at the moment who has the elemental bloodline (air).
I'm loving the concept and enjoyed the extra versatility this allowed me as a limited spell choice caster. This has allowed me to expand the focus of my spell selection to some of the more versatile spell choices that wizards normally get but sorcerors can't afford to dip into. Now you still get some blasting effects from your bloodline as well as choosing other spells of a versatile nature.
On two separate games though, I found my bloodline powers to be completely useless due to the nature of the combatants (immune to electricity or very highly resistant). I am aware that there are times where some people should shine and others should be shadowed, however, it is frustrating to have your signature powers completely ineffective.
We're playing an AP (Savage Tide) so it's not like my DM was trying to deliberately eliminate me from the game either. I was able to cast alternative magics but there were entire sections of my limited spell selections completely useless to me.
Now there are feats available in a number of splat books (complete Arcane for one) that allows me to swap energy types so I'm happy to use these.
What I'm wondering is if this is a problem that needs to be addressed at the pathfinder level.
Are the designers happy enough to leave energy substitution as a splat book option or should it be built into the game?
I was thinking of an option like a Sorceror feat that indicates you have more than one elemental type, like Air and Fire (non exclusive elements obvioulsy). This can open up a solution for this problem without adding further power to the already amazingly versatile Wizard
My reasoning is that I feel the bloodlines have been placed to increase the flexibility of the Sorceror in the caster role. A choice at the beginning of your career may end up being amazingly limiting in the long run if you fight many creature types immune to your bloodline. This shouldn't happen.
Or am I just being a wimpy geek boy who wants everything for my new Uber Caster?
Cheers
Contributor, RPG Superstar 2008 Top 4, Legendary Games
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I'm playing a Sorceror at the moment who has the elemental bloodline (air).
I'm loving the concept and enjoyed the extra versatility this allowed me as a limited spell choice caster. This has allowed me to expand the focus of my spell selection to some of the more versatile spell choices that wizards normally get but sorcerors can't afford to dip into. Now you still get some blasting effects from your bloodline as well as choosing other spells of a versatile nature.
On two separate games though, I found my bloodline powers to be completely useless due to the nature of the combatants (immune to electricity or very highly resistant). I am aware that there are times where some people should shine and others should be shadowed, however, it is frustrating to have your signature powers completely ineffective.
We're playing an AP (Savage Tide) so it's not like my DM was trying to deliberately eliminate me from the game either. I was able to cast alternative magics but there were entire sections of my limited spell selections completely useless to me.
Now there are feats available in a number of splat books (complete Arcane for one) that allows me to swap energy types so I'm happy to use these.
What I'm wondering is if this is a problem that needs to be addressed at the pathfinder level.
Are the designers happy enough to leave energy substitution as a splat book option or should it be built into the game?
I was thinking of an option like a Sorceror feat that indicates you have more than one elemental type, like Air and Fire (non exclusive elements obvioulsy). This can open up a solution for this problem without adding further power to the already amazingly versatile Wizard
My reasoning is that I feel the bloodlines have been placed to increase the flexibility of the Sorceror in the caster role. A choice at the beginning of your career may end up being amazingly limiting in the long run if you fight many creature types immune to your bloodline. This shouldn't happen.
Or am I just being a...
Well, the answer there is probably yes! :)
But it is still a valid question to ask about whether the ability to sub out your spell's damage type should be something PF includes in its spellcasters' repertoire of options.
I don't think this NEEDS to be fixed, either.
If you wanted to play some high-Level-Adjustment creature with Supernatural Abilities,
those would probably face a foe immune to them sometimes, too: so what?
Rogues have to fight oozes and incorporeal Undead sometimes, too.
It's not like there isn't a "generalist" option for those who don't want to run into this scenario: Arcane Bloodline.
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Thanks, I figured I'd get a response similar to this but wanted to throw it out there anyway.
Like you said Jason, it's more about whether an option like this could be included in the PF rules or just leave it in the extended repertoire of 3.5 splatbooks.
I'm all for adding a little more flexibility to the sorceror is all.
Cheers
Like you said Jason, it's more about whether an option like this could be included in the PF rules or just leave it in the extended repertoire of 3.5 splatbooks.
I'm all for adding a little more flexibility to the sorceror is all.
I was viewing it as something that might be cool as a higher level Elemental Bloodline option, 10th level plus. Each Elemental has one major element as an enemy though and you would be restricted from taking THAT particular element as your secondary choice. The whole post in general kinda of reminded me of "Battle Beasts" or "Magic the Gathering CCG". Perhaps even the infamous "Temple of Elemental Evil" would help expand this idea some.
And then of course there is simply a feat in 3.5 to take care of the problem.... Energy Affinity.
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We have 2 sorcerers in our party, both of whom are using the elemental bloodline (one fire, one ice, brother and sister PCs). I asked them for their take, and they expressed that they like the flavor of the abilities, but end up rarely using them b/c they just don't compare to the power of their spells, of which they have plenty. Plus, all of their spell-oriented feats do nothing to contribute to those bloodline abilities. I think others also have suggested that the bloodline powers tie in more with spells, which is the meat-and-drink of the Sor. Also, the alternate modes of movement come far too late (15th level) to be meaningful.
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The bloodline gives some bonus spells but they're ;imited to your element type (burning hands and scorching ray). Becasue I
an air elemental I get "lightning" rays rather than fire. I've compensated for this energy dependance by taking force effects and orb of fire as damageing spells, plus I've taken some more universal spells (haste, hold monster etc).
I love the flxibility the bloodline offers in my spells now. However, since the bloodline is givning me the "bang" component, when the bloodline becomes useless due to encounters it becomes very frustrating.
My take at the moment though, I have to suck it up and deal with it as I may be in the minority on this :)
As my levels are getting higher, I'm going to find less and less the likelihood of being made redundant.
Also, I took the feat from complete Arcane to counter this myself. I don't think Paizo is going to take it into their eat selection if it's readily available in splat boks.
As for the movement option, I'm the opposite. I can turn into my air elemental and get the fly ability. I guess I just can't fly and cast.
Cheers
Perhaps a feat that can reduce a selected creature's energy resistance by 10 (minimum 0), might be worth a playtest?
Two possible adjustments come to mind...
One, I agree with the earlier poster that maybe a sorcerer from the elemental bloodline should get some kind of power-up on his elemental abilities so they can automatically override some of a creature's resistance. It still wouldn't challenge those with full immunity, though.
Secondly, how about widening out an elemental sorcerer's abilities so they can dip into the para-elements on either side of their specialty? In other words, for an air elemental sorcerer, perhaps his mastery of the element grows to a point where he can use not only lightning, but also an icy wind or sleet-like effect...as well as a superheated-air or smoke-like effect as he branches out into the para-elements that border fire and water.
Not a fully-refined concept yet...but food for thought, maybe?
--Neil