Lenny's Sister, Cenny


Classes: Barbarian, Fighter, and Ranger


Ok this is Lenny's Sister, Cenny.

She likes a good scrap as much as her brother's do, however she also like to remain oh so pretty, in case Mr. Right comes along right after the fight, so she prefers ranged combat.

Now Cenny's stats are typical of her family (15 point buy) 10 Str 10 Con 20 dex 10 Int 10 Wis 10 Cha, with all her level bonuses going into Dex, and a belt of agility + 6, giving a total Dex of 30. Her prized possession to date is a + 5 light crossbow.

Cenny by the way is a 16th level fighter, with the following feats:
Weapon Focus, Greater Weapon Focus, Weapon Specialization, Greater Weapon Specialization, Vital Strike, Improved Vital Strike, Rapid Reload (light crossbow), Point Blank Shot, Precise Shot, Improved Precise Shot, Rapid Shot, Manyshot, Two weapon fighting, Improved Two weapon Fighting, Greater Two weapon Fighting, Weapon Swap, and Quick Draw, Deadly Aim

All specific feats go to Light Crossbow
Weapon Training went into Crossbows
(secondary went into thrown)

Now our little dear here has a base attack routine of +16/+11/+6/+1
Using a light crossbow and not really trying Cenny can get the following:
+36/+31/+26/+21
Damage per Hit: d8 + 7
Total Damage: 48

Using Deadly Aim will look like this:
+26/+21/+16/+11
Damage per Hit: d8 + 17
Total Damage: 88

Using Rapid Shot and multishot will bring the following:
+34/+34/+29/+24/+19
Damage per Hit: d8 + 7
Total Damage: 65

Using Deadly Aim will look like this:
+24/+24/+19/+14/+9
Damage per Hit: d8 + 17
Total Damage: 115

However she's not done getting more attacks in, Cenny like making pincushions out of those that hit her brothers, with that in mind she had Benny teach her how to fight with two weapons, even swapping with just one, and applied this knowledge to her own unique skills:
+30/+30/+28/+25/+23/+20/+18/+15
Damage per Hit: d8 + 7
Total Damage: 101

Using Deadly Aim will look like this:
+20/+20/+18/+15/+13/+10/+8/+5
Damage per Hit: d8 + 17
Total Damage: 181

Wow 8 attacks and don't forget that first attack is going to hit twice thanks to manyshot! Now that mysterious buffer that follows the lenny crew around decides to pour forth the buffs into Cenny getting us:
+36/+36/+36/+34/+31/+29/+26/+24/+21
Damage per Hit: d8 + 8
Total Damage: 122

Using Deadly Aim will look like this:
+26/+26/+26/+24/+21/+19/+16/+14/+11
Damage per Hit: d8 + 18
Total Damage: 212

9 Attacks that makes Lenny look over and wonder if he picked up the wrong weapon. By the way with quick draw or some gloves of storing Cenny could just use 2 + 5 light Crossbows... and that would look like this:
+36/+36/+36/+36/+31/+31/+26/+26/+21

The damage would be the same as above though. Now to get nitty Gritty, what if she decides to use that vital strike hmm?
+36/+36/+36/+36/+31/+31/+26/+26
Damage per Hit: 2d8 + 8
Total Damage: 149 (if the manyshot gets the damage increase 154)

Using Deadly Aim will look like this:
+26/+26/+26/+26/+21/+21/+16/+16
Damage per Hit: 2d8 + 18
Total Damage: 229 (if the manyshot gets the damage increase 234)

Looking at Cinny when she does Improved Vital strike comes out like this:
+36/+36/+36/+36/+31/+31/+26
Damage per Hit: 3d8 + 8
Total Damage: 176 (if the manyshot gets the damage increase 186)

Deadly Aim Puts it up to the following:
+26/+26/+26/+26/+21/+21/+16
Damage per Hit: 3d8 + 18
Total Damage: 236 (if the manyshot gets the damage increase 246)

However Cinny's chances of getting a full attack off are much better than her brothers.


An alternate build to the one posted would go with a light throwing weapon (starknives and light hammers are good choices) instead and replace the rapid reload with far shot. The base attack bonuses would be 2 better across the board but the damage would fall by about 2 points a hit, 4 points on vital strike, and 6 points on improved vital strike.


So what you're saying is that there should be note in Weapon Swap that a weapon that uses both hands (such as loading a light crossbow) can't be swapped to the "other" hand. Good point.

By the way, your base damage should be 1d8 + 12 (5 magic, 4 spec, 3 weapon training), and I'd suggest Improved critical for the build - though adding in crit calculations would make your math needlessly messy.


Majuba wrote:

So what you're saying is that there should be note in Weapon Swap that a weapon that uses both hands (such as loading a light crossbow) can't be swapped to the "other" hand. Good point.

By the way, your base damage should be 1d8 + 12 (5 magic, 4 spec, 3 weapon training), and I'd suggest Improved critical for the build - though adding in crit calculations would make your math needlessly messy.

You are right my base damage is off. I also didn't account for point blank shot, as it would have made the whole thing even longer.

Actually I think the weapon swap is alright with the light crossbow, as I'm putting it here as if Cenny is using it 1 handed (-4 penalty on primary, - 6 penalty on secondary), with gloves of storing or quick draw she could do a "multiple pistol attack" thing, or use free actions to store and the draw the second crossbow when the first is loaded.

Weapon swap actually makes more sense then the above as it leaves the second hand free to do the drawing and doesn't rely on "free action, store weapon, free action load first weapon, free action store first weapon, free action draw second weapon, free action load second weapon, free action draw first weapon, fire both weapons, repeat". *and everything in this case says free action, not swift*

If we are going for 'realistic' (I personally don't so much) then rapid reload, and weapon swap are odd ducks to begin with.

Beyond that the light throwing weapons would be even easier to understand and do nearly as much damage, the dice being smaller hurts some but most of the damage is coming from bonuses, and all the hits that are going in.

Dark Archive

The only issue I see is with the use of Manyshot; per the beta, it states "When making a full-attack action with a bow, your first attack fires two arrows." So I don't think you can use it with crossbows.


Bryan wrote:
The only issue I see is with the use of Manyshot; per the beta, it states "When making a full-attack action with a bow, your first attack fires two arrows." So I don't think you can use it with crossbows.

I'd forgotten that, yes. Bows only for Manyshot.

I still 99% disagree that you can use *two hands* to load a crossbow, and be considered to be doing any sort of two-weapon fighting. I could see a full-round blast with one, with a quick-draw/stored already loaded crossbow shot as a single off hand. You'd even retain a lot of the damage potential of the build (after accounting for AC) since it would be a primary attack.


Without multi shot the build only loses about 5 damage a go and it opens up more stuff (with different feats), however the idea that you can only manyshot with a bow is odd, I know several people that can throw two javalins/daggers/axes at once with one hand, yes it's a trick to learn how too, but that's what feats are (I don't nessecarily disagree with the crossbow not being able to multishot).

Weapon swap as a whole is wonky (I've said this before) but I really don't mind the thought of someone trading hands and shooting more with a crossbow, it makes more sense to me than the quick draw shoot repeate, or glove of storing option. After all you aren't fighting with the crossbow two handed in Cenny's case, you are firing one handed then reloading with the other (maybe holding 4~5 bolts in that hand) swapping hands grabbing more ammo with the primary then reloading as you fire with your off hand.

I see it almost like a 'feathering' a single action pistol.

Over all I'm just going with a "what it says" approach.

Dark Archive

Abraham spalding wrote:

Without multi shot the build only loses about 5 damage a go and it opens up more stuff (with different feats), however the idea that you can only manyshot with a bow is odd, I know several people that can throw two javalins/daggers/axes at once with one hand, yes it's a trick to learn how too, but that's what feats are (I don't nessecarily disagree with the crossbow not being able to multishot).

Good point; I can see it being expanded to include thrown weapons (but not crossbows). Probably a decent house rule, even if that change isn't adopted.


I can't believe I missed out on poor Cenny! *sobs*

Nice write up :)


be good to add Quick Draw to the build to make full use of Two-Weapon Fighting for thrown

"A character who has selected this feat may throw weapons at his full normal rate of attacks (much like a character with a bow)."

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