Return the DC of the Fascinate ability to the Perform check

[JL99]

While I agree that the DC for many of the bards songs would be too high if it was set to the Perform check, I do not understand why the fascinate ability was changed.

Others have mentioned that in order to use suggestion, you need the target to fail two saves and it is now harder to use this ability.

I would argue that this should be changed back to the way it was under
3.5.

Any comments?

[Honorable Rogue]

Once fascinated it should be easier to make a suggestion so why not simply put a penalty on the second check? Maybe the Bard's CHA modifier? That way the mechanics stay divorced of a perform check and the Bard gets the benefit of the target being under an effect already.

Cheers

[pontoark]

John Lee 297 wrote:

While I agree that the DC for many of the bards songs would be too high if it was set to the Perform check, I do not understand why the fascinate ability was changed.

Others have mentioned that in order to use suggestion, you need the target to fail two saves and it is now harder to use this ability.

I would argue that this should be changed back to the way it was under
3.5.

Any comments?

I completly agree with the problem and the solution

[Abraham spalding]

Not to mention that you can't use it in combat, when you can use the fascinate spell in combat... I agree with the problem and both solutions, either works for me.

[Majuba]

I would have no trouble with the return of Fascinate to a Perform check - it seems to be the most intrinsically music-linked ability. Also the only one that scales outside of Bard levels.

However - applying the -4 to Perception checks that the Fascinated condition gives to saving throws against one of the following would work:

a) Suggestion Bard ability
b) Suggestion spells and abilities
c) Enchantment (Compulsion) effects
d) Enchantment (Mind-affecting) effects

I'd suggest a or b.

[Kalyth]

Majuba wrote:

I would have no trouble with the return of Fascinate to a Perform check - it seems to be the most intrinsically music-linked ability. Also the only one that scales outside of Bard levels.

However - applying the -4 to Perception checks that the Fascinated condition gives to saving throws against one of the following would work:

a) Suggestion Bard ability
b) Suggestion spells and abilities
c) Enchantment (Compulsion) effects
d) Enchantment (Mind-affecting) effects

I'd suggest a or b.

I will second that idea. Just apply the -4 penalty to all enchantment/mind affecting effects used on the subject while he's affected by the fascinate. It makes sense, solves the problem and is great thematically. I would have no problem with a Bard using his fasinate on some guards to make them more vulnerable to a sleep or hold spell cast by his hidden wizard ally or even himself.