I noticed that there are a few weapons not listed in the descriptions in the weapons chapter: morningstar (and why was the morningstar illustrated with a chain in Beta but not with a chain in the PHB) and maces, at least were left out. Any one notice any others?
D&D for some reason has made the morningstar a spiked mace since 1st edition and before. Never has had a chain in D&D that I'm aware of. History be damned.
From Wikipedia:
"The morning star is a medieval weapon consisting of a spiked club resembling a mace, usually with a long spike extending straight from the top and many smaller spikes around the particle of the head."
"The flail is a medieval weapon made of one (or more) weights attached to a handle with a hinge or chain. There is some disagreement over the names for this weapon; the terms "morning star", and even "mace" are variously applied, though these are used to describe other weapons, which are very different in usage from a weapon with a hinge or chain, commonly used in Europe from the 13th century to the 15th century. In construction, the morning star and flail have similar, if not identical, spiked heads. Thus, morning star is an acceptable name for this weapon, especially as the name "flail" is also used to describe a style of whip used for flagellation."
So, a flail COULD basically be a morning star with a chained handle; but, since we have both morning star AND flail, I would go to say that the Beta has the wrong picture.
My 2c...
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From Wikipedia:
"The morning star is a medieval weapon consisting of a spiked club resembling a mace, usually with a long spike extending straight from the top and many smaller spikes around the particle of the head."
"The flail is a medieval weapon made of one (or more) weights attached to a handle with a hinge or chain. There is some disagreement over the names for this weapon; the terms "morning star", and even "mace" are variously applied, though these are used to describe other weapons, which are very different in usage from a weapon with a hinge or chain, commonly used in Europe from the 13th century to the 15th century. In construction, the morning star and flail have similar, if not identical, spiked heads. Thus, morning star is an acceptable name for this weapon, especially as the name "flail" is also used to describe a style of whip used for flagellation."
So, a flail COULD basically be a morning star with a chained handle; but, since we have both morning star AND flail, I would go to say that the Beta has the wrong picture.
My 2c...
Yeah but look at the Wikipedia Falchion it's pretty clear that D&D Can't even get the handedness of weapons right.
"A falchion ([fɔːlʃən], from Old French fauchon, ultimately from Latin falx "sickle") is a one-handed, single-edged sword of European origin, whose design is reminiscent of the Persian scimitar and the Chinese dao.
Contributor
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I've always believed that 'morningstar' referred to the spiked ball itself, whether it was mounted on a haft or on a chain. Thus a morningstar could be a sunset of mace or a subset of flail, depending what it was attached to. Personally I think Pathinder should end the confusion by getting rid of the morningstar, or, better yet, rename it the heavy mace and get rid of the heavy mace. As it stands, there is no reason to choose a heavy mace over a morningstar, unless it is your deity's favoured weapon, and lots of reasons to choose the morningstar.
As an aside, the artwork for the morningstar comes from one of the item cards, and in another thread from long ago, someone from Paizo (Jason, IIRC) confirmed that the artwork was incorrect for a D&D morningstar. I believe the artist suffered from the same confusion as many others. I'm pretty sure that in at least one previous edition, the morningstar was actually the flail-type rather than the mace-type.
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Contributor
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Yeah but look at the Wikipedia Falchion it's pretty clear that D&D Can't even get the handedness of weapons right.
"A falchion, from Old French fauchon, ultimately from Latin falx "sickle") is a one-handed, single-edged sword of European origin, whose design is reminiscent of the Persian scimitar and the Chinese dao.
Funny note: The falchion, as you say, was one-handed, but the falx, the weapon from which the name derives, was two-handed!
Speaking of mislabeled weapon properties, I have a question about the damage properties of the sai. It is listed at a blunt weapon, but looks like a dagger. Practice sai I've seen are indeed blunt, but I don't know if that's the case for "live" versions. Can someone clarify?
Traditional sai are rounded. The bladed sai has come about largely due to the way they are shown in comics. Most strikes with a sai are "flat of blade" against the hand and wrist, though they could still be used to stab.
It does not help the Flail/Morningstar arguement that Maces range from reinforced clubs to flanged heads to spiked heads (often called holy water sprinklers)
Spiked maces are, for the most part, morningstars. The only difference is that the central spike of a morningstar allowed to th be used for thrusting (IIRC).
I like the idea of reducing the whole club/mace/flail family to the following:
- Combine the club and light mace.
- Change the heavy mace to the mace (or more specifically a flanged mace) and increase the critical to x3. Maces were very good and penetrating armor.
- Keep the morningstar (spiked mace) as is. It is cheaper and piercing, but would lack the higher critical damage.
- Neither the flail or heavy flail were used historically to trip or disarm. Instead they could largely ignore shields. I would suggest a +1 circumstance bonus to hit targets using shields.
- Keep the Greatclub as it is.
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A morningstar does NOT have a chain. It should be a B/P weapon simultaneously, as it is effectively a spiked mace. It was designed to defeat plate armors to penetrate with the spikes while the heavy head crushed the armor.
Ball and chain should be added
Keep a light mace and club separate...there's a huge difference between a stick and a manufactured weapon.
Add a great mace as well.
Weapons need a lot more character, which is why I'm working on a fun little addition that gives weapons abilities based upon the level of expertise of the character weilding them...a better reason to have GReater Weapon Proficiency than +4 dmg. Imagine being able to stun someone once per round using the "Bell Ringer" ability of a Morningstar. (DC=dmg taken)
I used to check out the arms and armor books at the library when I was a kid...I was a bit obsessed...heh.