It has been mentioned many a time that Clerics are not among the most popular characters to play (I like them personally, but many don't), yet they are essential to the party for their healing capabilities. These capabilities lead to healing responsibilities and for many players that diminishes the fun of playing a Cleric, because they feel they are in a support role rather than a leading role like everybody else, and their actions are highly constrained by the actions of others, since they must often be used on healing other party members (well, technically they don't have to, but it often turns out that way).
It is therefore prudent to deal with this issue, yet maintaining the flavor of the Cleric as the most capable healer of all the classes.
My experience indicates that two issues are responsible for the Cleric's dilemna:
1) Spell Economy
2) Action Economy
1 - I use the term 'Spell Economy' to refer to the fact that Clerics need to memorize and expend spells on healing in lieu of memorizing and expending spells for other purposes of their own choosing.
In D&D 3.X edition, of course, spontaneous casting of healing spells was added to preclude the Cleric from having to memorize direct healing spells (of course, indirect healing spells removing conditions, such as Restoration, Cure Disease or even Ressurection [well, Death is a condition ;) ] still have to be memorized). On the one hand, this unburdened the cleric frm having to memorize these spells, but on the other hand, it has in practice come to mean for some parties that every cleric spell is a healing spell regardless of what spells the Cleric chooses to memorize.
2) The term 'Action Economy' expresses the fact that Clerics have to spend actions on healing rather than taking actions most players consider fun. After all, casting a healing spell is a standard action... an action that cannot be used to attack or cast a spell the Cleric might have chosen to cast were it not for the necessity to shore up a comrade in trouble.
The solution is, therefore, to decouple healing from both spell economy and action economy. Of course, the decoupling need not be complete, it is sufficient if it is merely 'substantial.
Luckily, the mechanism for decoupling healing from spells already exists. The Clerical ability to Channel Positive Energy provides a very reasonable substitute for healing spells. All that is necessary for the decoupling to be sufficient to be effective is the addition of more uses per day and the removal of the ability to spontaneously cast healing spells, so that not every Cleric spell is a healing spell. I don't feel the Cleric really needs to be compensated for the loss of spontaneous casting of healing spells, especially given that he is already pretty powerful and would get more uses of Channel Energy, but if others do, many of us have suggested multiple times the notion of spontaneous casting of domain spells, so that would be possible compensation.
Of course, the more powerful (indirect) healing spells (I mean spells, such as Restoration, Remove Curse, etcetera) would still not be covered by the Channel Positive Energy system and would need to be memorized normally just like they are now. These spells, however, are not generally used in combat and can often wait until the next they, so they often don't need to be a dominant feature of Cleric's normally memorized/prepared spells.
The key to the issue of the economy of actions, where too many of Cleric's actions are expended on healing is, wait for it... to make healing cost fewer actions! Perhaps the Cleric could be given a "Fast Channeling" ability that enables him to Channel Energy as a move action, but for the sake of maintaining balance, this kind of speeded-up Channeling could be made to only heal/deal damage - it would have no turning/rebuking effects. Only normal Channeling costing a standard action could also turn/rebuke undead. Fast Channeling would enable the cleric to heal and still use another ability in the same round.
Note: This type Cleric would probably be much more fun to play for most players, but might need to be depowered slightly in some other areas, so as to maintain balance. After all, the Cleric was overpowered to begin with in order to attract players towards playing him. I guess the need for depowering or the details thereof would have to be discussed pretty extensively.
I would be particularly open to trading the power of Channel Energy (in terms of amount of damage healed/dealt) for a significantly greater frequency of casting it. That would both ensure a ready supply of healing for the party (thus also further ameliorating the 5 minute adventuring day, apart from helping to solve the cleric issues), while not being overly powerful in the damage (or healing) per second department.
Well I have said else where they still need a bit of depowering, but your ideal of move action channel is nice so give them that take away 1 domain, and heavy armor and call it even.
I think the new cleric does a lot to fix these. In fact, as soon as my Pathfinder cleric gets to level 3, I'm taking "Quicken Turning" from Complete Divine! I already took Extra Turning and have a high CHA, so I get 8 channels a day and won't have to waste combat actions to do 'em. WooT!
I think the new cleric does a lot to fix these. In fact, as soon as my Pathfinder cleric gets to level 3, I'm taking "Quicken Turning" from Complete Divine! I already took Extra Turning and have a high CHA, so I get 8 channels a day and won't have to waste combat actions to do 'em. WooT!
see the issue there is you need a none core book to do that. I do not use the complete books in my games so saying to use a spell/feat from a none core book does not fix a core issue
I think the new cleric does a lot to fix these. In fact, as soon as my Pathfinder cleric gets to level 3, I'm taking "Quicken Turning" from Complete Divine! I already took Extra Turning and have a high CHA, so I get 8 channels a day and won't have to waste combat actions to do 'em. WooT!
Yes, the new Cleric is a definite step in the right direction - the very existence of Channeling helps.
As to "Quicken Turning", however, I would strongly advise you against taking it. Channeling is pretty powerful as it is and whereas I would like it to sacrifice some of its power for the ability to be used more often, "Quicken Turning" goes way too far. Way back when the initial rules came out, I implemented them in my game and convinced a player of a Cleric to take feats to enhance Channel Energy, including "Quicken Turning". That proved to be too overpowered when dealing with undead (in fact even without this feat, Channeling is in my experience overpowered, but not as much).
If you wish to read about the initial part of how that went, feel free to go here:
[url=http://paizo.com/paizo/messageboards/paizoPublishing/pathfinder/pathfinderRPG/playtest/channelEnergyPlaytestReport[/url]
Well I have said else where they still need a bit of depowering, but your ideal of move action channel is nice so give them that take away 1 domain, and heavy armor and call it even.
I agree that what you describe would be a decent way of compensating for this, but Jason has already stated in one of the threads that he thinks Clerics need the armor. It is possible to instead, make Channel Energy usable more often and faster, as I have outlined above, but compensate for it by making Channeling somewhat less powerful in terms of healing/damage output person per round.
I think the new cleric does a lot to fix these. In fact, as soon as my Pathfinder cleric gets to level 3, I'm taking "Quicken Turning" from Complete Divine! I already took Extra Turning and have a high CHA, so I get 8 channels a day and won't have to waste combat actions to do 'em. WooT!see the issue there is you need a none core book to do that. I do not use the complete books in my games so saying to use a spell/feat from a none core book does not fix a core issue
Indeed... plus "Quicken Turning" is taking it way too far - it 'overfixes' the problem.
Then perhaps a new quicken turning feat for Pathfinder that changes it to a move action. That way the core ability doesn't need to be fiddled with or depowered. (And it "overrides" the one in CD).
Besides, they need to decide if they're serious about the 3.5 back compatibility "still use all your books!" pitch or not. If they're going to push that, then the class splatbooks are the first on the list of things people will use. I'm just as happy with them saying "no... pfrpg is different enough that you should be able to use adventures and convert monsters kinda easily but the goal is not 3.5e back compatibility character wise." But it's not right to say "back compatible!" but really have everyone saying all the time "No no, don't use any of the old books!"