Director of Games
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I've seen sevearl people since Alpha mention this, but I'd like to repeat the suggestion that the cleric domains actually appear in the class chapter under cleric instead of in the spells chapter, similar to how the sorcerer bloodlines appear under sorcerer.
Chances are, actually, that we will be moving the sorcerer bloodlines out of the chapter. If we move the domains and schools into the chapter, it will bloat the classes chapter to an unacceptable length. Better to have them all together in the magic chapter.
Thoughts
Jason Bulmahn
Lead Designer
Paizo Publishing
RPG Superstar 2008 Top 32, 2011 Top 16
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I've seen sevearl people since Alpha mention this, but I'd like to repeat the suggestion that the cleric domains actually appear in the class chapter under cleric instead of in the spells chapter, similar to how the sorcerer bloodlines appear under sorcerer.Chances are, actually, that we will be moving the sorcerer bloodlines out of the chapter. If we move the domains and schools into the chapter, it will bloat the classes chapter to an unacceptable length. Better to have them all together in the magic chapter.
Thoughts
Jason Bulmahn
Lead Designer
Paizo Publishing
I'd rather see all of that in the classes chapter, even if it's a bloated chapter. My reasoning is that these are all abilities that are selected at character creation, and then checked for new upgrades and powers when you level up, just like classes. When you're making a new character (PC or NPC), it would be much easier to look at your class related options at the same place as the class description. Similarly, when you're leveling up your character, all of your new level abilities would be all in one place. To me, that makes things easier. I'd argue that if you take these out of the class chapter and put them into the spells chapter, then you might as well take out the familiar, animal companion and paladin mount information, since those to me all get used in the same way.
If the Bloodlines are listed along with the School/Domains, that at least makes it consistent.
There needs to be a line in each class, pointing to the Page #/ Section where the Schools/Domains/Bloodlines are located though, and it should be VERY clear & obvious for newbie players.
The Domains/Schools ORIGINALLY might have been listed in the Magic Section, because they only granted bonus SPELLS, and likewise enlarged the Spells Known. Now that they DON'T for the most part, they probably should be in their own Chapter, NOT the same chapter as the Spell List/ Descriptions.
I'm with the people who would like the bloodlines, schools, and domains in the class section. If it was a separate chapter, that would be OK but not my first choice. Domains and schools seems to bloat the spell list right now.
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Chances are, actually, that we will be moving the sorcerer bloodlines out of the chapter. If we move the domains and schools into the chapter, it will bloat the classes chapter to an unacceptable length. Better to have them all together in the magic chapter.
That would be unfortunate. Right now, character creation requires a number of page flips, because a lot of players choose domains based on effects, rather than choose a god at random. My group has expressed some concern on the location of domains in the spells chapter.
I would recommend that domains, school choices, and bloodlines be kept in the chapter section. With the inclusion of these, the class chapter would go from 40 pages to maybe 50.
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I've seen sevearl people since Alpha mention this, but I'd like to repeat the suggestion that the cleric domains actually appear in the class chapter under cleric instead of in the spells chapter, similar to how the sorcerer bloodlines appear under sorcerer.Chances are, actually, that we will be moving the sorcerer bloodlines out of the chapter. If we move the domains and schools into the chapter, it will bloat the classes chapter to an unacceptable length. Better to have them all together in the magic chapter.
Thoughts
Jason Bulmahn
Lead Designer
Paizo Publishing
but its easier to check when you are creating the character, that is whern you need to see it... not look at half a book a way to see what you need...
maybe an "appendix"at the end of the class chapter, but not so far away as the spells section... the domains, schools and bloodlines are a class feature, itshouldbe shown in the classes chapter
I can really see the reasoning for pushing it all into the classes chapter - and they should all be together of course.
However I've been bothered several times by the space that Sorcerer takes up with its bloodlines.
One thing with the classes chapter is that you flip between classes a *lot* - either trying to find a particular one or comparing two. Having three huge classes would spread things out quite a bit.
On the other hand I've got a cleric in my game who barely knows his domain abilities - might be useful together.
Tough call!
Perhaps this can be tested out a bit - release a Beta update with the info in the classes section (and a big disclaimer/info box saying you're trying it out there - please comment).
Chances are, actually, that we will be moving the sorcerer bloodlines out of the chapter. If we move the domains and schools into the chapter, it will bloat the classes chapter to an unacceptable length. Better to have them all together in the magic chapter.
While I understand the logic of keeping similar number of pages for each class, it wouldn't use that much more resources to mention in the classes' description the chapter and page to find the respective domains and arcane schools (intuitive as it might be, there's still plenty of people who have toubles trying to find them).
Chances are, actually, that we will be moving the sorcerer bloodlines out of the chapter. If we move the domains and schools into the chapter, it will bloat the classes chapter to an unacceptable length. Better to have them all together in the magic chapter.
Thoughts
Jason Bulmahn
Lead Designer
Paizo Publishing
Please don't go that route. As others have mentioned, Domains, Bloodlines and Schools are all abilities that are primarily referenced at Character Creation. Moving one of the single biggest decisions for Cleric/Sorcerer/Wizard character creation out of the expected "workflow" path like this is especially confusing. It would be almost like moving the Mount/ Animal Companion/ Familiar rules into the Monster Book.
This is one instance where a slightly larger chapter (it would go from 40 to 51 pages) in one area will increase ease-of-use, and decrease wear-and-tear on what's going to be a rather large and expensive rulebook.
Compared to the chapter on spell, or WotC making the Classes chapter of 4E take up 1/2 the PHB, this really doesn't seem like excessive bloat.
With that said, the only concern I have about adding more to the Classes chapter is that it may be too much for small PDF readers (like the ones in PDAs/Smartphones) to handle. Due to the artwork for all the iconics, Chapter 4 is by far the largest in file size and already give mine some problems (several GB of free storage space, but not much in the way of RAM).
If push came to shove, I'd rather retain the ability to open all parts of PfRPG on my PDA even if some convenience is lost (though splitting the PDF for that chapter into 2 files would be a preferable solution).
If you do move stuff, the please include a reference to the page number where the player should flip to in order to finish creating their cleric/sorcerer/wizard.
I'll chime in to agree with the request to put all class abilities in the Classes chapter.
Though, perhaps, if they had their own Abilities chapter, right after the Classes chapter, much like Feats, Skills, Spells...