A Pathfinder GM Book?


General Discussion (Prerelease)


I'm a GM, and I feel that a lot of the problems from 3.5 are not mechanical, but stem from a lack of GM support in the system. I've often lauded D&D as the only RPG I know of that includes rules on setting building as a matter of course. The DMG 3.0 and 3.5 were great tools at the time they were released, but they quickly grow obsolete as the game expands.

Paizo is openly considering a monster book with re-written CRs. My hope is that they will consider a GM's Guide with a reworked encounter building system.

I think a lot of things, specifically high level play, fall on the GM to run properly. I'd love to see an encounter system that accounted for high PC ability scores, a better system for awarding equipment and how that affects level, and serious advice about the stages of advancement and how that a can completely change your needs for adventure building. This advice must go beyond simply acknowledging the problem's existence, as all DMGs do, and get into specific, structured solutions.

This should be standardized to the point where a novice GM doesn't need to feel they are doing something wrong when APL = EL starts routinely failing around 10th level.

I think the PRPG should retain a chapter on GMing, but I really feel this needs a great long-form treatment. A Pathfinder GMG should essentially read as a construction set for building an adventure path as good as Paizo's, and that's gonna take a whole book to do right.

So how about it, Paizo? Paizo fans?


Sigh.

*bump*

Sorry.

Liberty's Edge

I like that and liked in my DMG the world building guide which I found useful along with varied other rules. I like the hints on building traps for the Players to discover and disarm. Also the random dungeon creation is great fun to play with. There are lots of things in the DMG that only the DM has access to. I use the random treasure charts frequently, even the the Magic Items charts for putting random items in the treasure hoards.

I would love to see not only a guide to crafting an adventure but guides to building new classes and prestige classes for your own campaign. Also how to create a new race for that world. My boyfriend and I have both created Campaign worlds and would love guides as to how to properly balance them for Pathfinder. So yes I would heartily agree on having a separate book just for GMs.

Dark Archive

I'd buy it. One of my favorite books for just general reading is Green Ronin's Advanced GM's Manual, and something written specifically with the PfRPG in mind would be a huge boon.

I'd also have to agree that-- while there certainly are systemic issues with 3.5-- a lot of the perceived problems can be addressed in a GMG. They can even be detailed in the sort of sidebars seen in the Beta, to give indications why a rule was kept/discarded. ("While we know many people disliked Rule X, we were at a loss for how to change it until one of our copyeditors had too much beer and pizza and passed out with some notes on a post-it-note stuck to his forehead. It was like a sign from god, and it inspired us to try Rule Y instead, which seems to have worked out much better...")

It might even be a good place to include some suggested variant rules that just didn't make the final cut but might appeal to some homebrewers. Who knows?


I would love to see a book dedicated to crafting encounters. I think it would be fine as a 64 or 96 page softback offering though. DMs who roll their own stuff would be able to use it as a reference guide, DMs who do adventure paths and prebuilt stuff would probably not use it much.


I think you've got a good point with encounter building. But do you envision an entire GM guide built on encounter building, or just as a significant part of a GM guide? And if the latter, I am curious what else you see as especially needing to be addressed in such a book, separate from the final PfRPG.

EDIT: Lost my reply somewhere in there. Anyone's free, but if it wasn't clear, I was specifically asking toyrobots.

Liberty's Edge

Mairkurion {tm} wrote:
I think you've got a good point with encounter building. But do you envision an entire GM guide built on encounter building, or just as a significant part of a GM guide? And if the latter, I am curious what else you see as especially needing to be addressed in such a book, separate from the final PfRPG.

Personally I was just thinking of such a thing being included in a GMG, but that could easily go into the GM portion of the main PfRPG.

What I want access to most is a rough idea of world building, classes, prestige classes, and races. I build worlds and sometimes I find myself in need of a new core class in addition to what is already built, or some prestige classes that are fun and add to the flavor. Also I usually wind up adding at least one race to the world or a new sub-race, so having a guideline as to how to do that for PfRPG would be the portion I would find the most useful.

That said I do like to use the charts for random treasure generation or random encounters. But I can if need be make my own versions of those.


Mairkurion {tm} wrote:

I think you've got a good point with encounter building. But do you envision an entire GM guide built on encounter building, or just as a significant part of a GM guide? And if the latter, I am curious what else you see as especially needing to be addressed in such a book, separate from the final PfRPG.

EDIT: Lost my reply somewhere in there. Anyone's free, but if it wasn't clear, I was specifically asking toyrobots.

Well you'll get my answer anyways... And encounter building book. Or maybe even 2 small books, one for levels 1-10 and one for 11-20.


i would also like to see a GMG that included a section on world building, as well as the creation of any new crunchy bits, like feats, spells(which could also go in the PG), PrCs, Races, Classes, etc.

Here's the thing: we already know the PRPG main book will basically be the Player's Handbook Pathfinder style and the Beastiary will be Paizo's own Monster Manual, so why can't there also be a Pathfinder style Dungeon Master's Guide? Sure a lot of that can be left up to an individual DM, but everybody can benefit from a collection of the same type of ideas and suggestions.


Well, we already know that the final PfRPG really is supposed to be PH and DMG together, which the Beta is already well on the way to. But they are already talking about additional stuff that will be in a web enhancement, and I am sure they would consider publishing additional GM material.


A DM book would be a good resource. And it should cover more of the mechanical aspects of DMing, not so much the basic roleplaying aspects, because seriously, enough DMGs already do that.

What 3.5 really lacked was some good time saving guidelines at preparing stuff. Having complex creation rules is fine for PCs, but most DMs want to be able to stat out "dummy NPC fighter #23" without going through great lengths to equip him with magic items, complex feats and all that garbage. Sometimes you just want a couple interesting abilities and a good balanced set of numbers that you can make up in a couple minutes, and that's one thing that 3.5 lacked. And I don't just want sample characters, because most DMs don't want to just reuse the same cookie cutter NPCs (not to mention even the cookie cutter stuff in the DMG 3.5 was a pain to use if you wanted to make it into a playable stat block).

Really, the main thing 4E has going for it right now is that it's much much easier to prepare for as a DM. Modifying monsters is easier, creating monsters is easier, and pathfinder needs to adopt some of that too, especially for NPCs.

There also needs to be some advice for encounters. Namely high level stuff. Basically a laundry list of things that every creature needs to be able to do, like see invisibility and attack flying targets.

You really could have probably a 150 page book based on that.


I'd be interested in a product. I've been DMing for years, but an extra help and a new point of view is always welcome. I'd have to say though, I'd prefer the soft back book. It'd be cheaper and a big book like that would likely have a lot of retread over the stuff that's been moved from the DMG to the Pathfinder PHB.

On a related note, I'd be interested in a book of tables too. That'd make DMing just a little easier at times. Magic items, random encounters, inn names, spell components, a table for everything (but not NPC names - we have the phone book for that, and that's free!) would be awesome.

Peace,

tfad


Pathfinder clearly has a setting, and unlike the "default" setting of 3.5, their APs and campaign guides really preclude the inclusion of setting building in a Pathfinder book. You know what? I'm fine with that. I don't need much advice on setting building, and when I do I have other sources.

What I need is comprehensive, long-form encounter building rules, guidelines, templates, goals, and advice. Almost every enduring failure of the 3.5 system boils down to the notion that encounter building is as simple as APL vs. EL, and that just plain is not the case.

One poster above mentioned two 96 page GMGs, one for level 1-10, and the other for 11-20. I think this is a really good idea. I don't feel we need to go digging up extra material just to make it rival the size of the Monster book and core rules.

All I really want is Paizo's big book of robust encounter, adventure, and campaign building resource. Make it crunchy, make it useful, make it more than just advice, and I will definitely buy it.


Pathfinder Adventure, Adventure Path, Lost Omens Subscriber

One of the things I liked about the Beta is that all of the mechanics that are normally found in the DMG (magic items, encounter building, traps, etc) are now in the main rulebook.

That said, I'd love to see a Paizo DMG "Revisted" that has advanced advice, tips for easy preparation of encounters, and possible variant rules like what was in Unearthed Arcana.

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