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Now that we know that normal elves can spontaneously turn into drow if their souls become corrupt enough I was wondering if the same thing could happen to an evil forlorn elf? I didn't read anything in Pathfinder #13 that implied that this couldn't happen, but many of the important elven connections that the drow transformation severs are already cut in the case of forlorn elves possibly leaving the concept socially, mystically & possibly thematically moot for them.
I realize that as a DM I can rule either way as I need, but I'm wondering about the original intent of the designers.
Thanks.
Sam
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This is a really neat question. The difference in mindset and culture between Forlorn and "Returned" elves has had me interested for a while; this just adds more fuel to the fire.
You might want to spoilerize the topic title, the drow-transformation thing is supposed to be a big surprise for players IIRC.
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You might want to spoilerize the topic titleI did kind of consider that I was 'spoiling', but I couldn't think of a way to ask the question without... actually asking the question. So, yeah, but do you have any ideas on how to do that?
Sam
Eh, admittedly hard to get to the point of the question while talking around it. "Forlorn-Drow Question (SPOILERS)"?
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To answer the question - ** spoiler omitted **
Who are we to let a lack of info stop us from Wild Mass Guessing! ;)
Raymond E Feist explored such a concept in his "Rift War" saga.
He had a scene where an "evil" elf saw the light, and was "returned" to the good elves. From the description, you could not mistake the evil version for the good version, but they were the same elf (features, etc..), but once the returning was complete, you had no doubt that it was a good elf.
I am in no way doing justice to the scene, but that is what I remember.
Hmmm, starts to look for the series, it would seem to be a good time to re-read it.
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Sort of sounds like Jedi and the Force to me. Which is not a bad thing at all.
Actually I like this idea. The ancient and superior elves who abandoned Golarion to its doom have returned to reclaim what was once theirs. Only they find they are susceptable to transformation into "deformed" evil elves. Then they find that the pathetic half breeds of their race are actually immune from the transformations and may be their only hope from despair.
Now that I think about it, the elven race is full of conflict and really good stories. There are four dominant variants of the elven race: Forlorn Elves who remained on Golarion through the dark ages, the Returned Elves who abandoned Golarion and have returne assuming they could reclaim their place, the Drow who have descended into evil, hatred and despair, and the Half-Elf.
Add into the mix elves with parents from different factions.
I think that Paizo will also have to release a Campaign Setting Companion eventually. The CS is all about Humans, which we know dominate the lands, but are not the entire story. There really should be a demi-human campaign setting as well detailing the elven and dwarven lands as well as the gnomes and halflings.
Creative Director
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I think that Paizo will also have to release a Campaign Setting Companion eventually. The CS is all about Humans, which we know dominate the lands, but are not the entire story. There really should be a demi-human campaign setting as well detailing the elven and dwarven lands as well as the gnomes and halflings.
The CS IS mostly about humans, though. We'll be releasing a 32 page Elves of Golarion product in a few months, though, and if that does well we'll certainly consider doing the other races. But in the end, the setting is supposed to be humanocentric, so a 256 "Demihuman Version" of the place probably won't ever happen.
Also:
I think that Paizo will also have to release a Campaign Setting Companion eventually. The CS is all about Humans, which we know dominate the lands, but are not the entire story. There really should be a demi-human campaign setting as well detailing the elven and dwarven lands as well as the gnomes and halflings.The CS IS mostly about humans, though. We'll be releasing a 32 page Elves of Golarion product in a few months, though, and if that does well we'll certainly consider doing the other races. But in the end, the setting is supposed to be humanocentric, so a 256 "Demihuman Version" of the place probably won't ever happen.
Also:
** spoiler omitted **
Niiiiiiiiice:)
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The CS IS mostly about humans, though. We'll be releasing a 32 page Elves of Golarion product in a few months, though, and if that does well we'll certainly consider doing the other races.
If there isn't a Gnomes of Golarion book, there will be riots in the streets and the very internet will crack in twain.
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If there isn't a Gnomes of Golarion book, there will be riots in the streets and the very internet will crack in twain.
The CS IS mostly about humans, though. We'll be releasing a 32 page Elves of Golarion product in a few months, though, and if that does well we'll certainly consider doing the other races.
But even more so if there is. ;p
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If there isn't a Gnomes of Golarion book, there will be riots in the streets and the very internet will crack in twain.
The CS IS mostly about humans, though. We'll be releasing a 32 page Elves of Golarion product in a few months, though, and if that does well we'll certainly consider doing the other races.
Agreed! I'd love to see that released.
Thoth-Amon
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I think that Paizo will also have to release a Campaign Setting Companion eventually. The CS is all about Humans, which we know dominate the lands, but are not the entire story. There really should be a demi-human campaign setting as well detailing the elven and dwarven lands as well as the gnomes and halflings.The CS IS mostly about humans, though. We'll be releasing a 32 page Elves of Golarion product in a few months, though, and if that does well we'll certainly consider doing the other races. But in the end, the setting is supposed to be humanocentric, so a 256 "Demihuman Version" of the place probably won't ever happen.
Also:
** spoiler omitted **
well I would never have expected 256 pages. Maybe 254...
Seriously though, 32 pages for each race equals 128 pages in total, which should be good.
I just cannot imagine not having a Demihuman set of books for players. Not having that source material is essentially telling the GMs when a Player asks what was it like living with my poeple, the GM has to answer "No idea, only one of the five major player races are worth being written about. Maybe we should play Forgotten Realms instead..."
And we certainly do not want that.
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Not having that source material is essentially telling the GMs when a Player asks what was it like living with my poeple, the GM has to answer "No idea, only one of the five major player races are worth being written about. Maybe we should play Forgotten Realms instead..."
And we certainly do not want that.
Despite being a fervent and oft-times strident supporter of a Gnomes of Golarion book, in my day not having something detailed in the source material was essentially telling the GM, "Go, play, have fun making up something weird and wacky and wonderful. WE'RE not going to contradict you. This is a game about making stuff up, so here's some practice!"
Maybe I'm just too damn old.
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i agreee woth both
if you have no data, who is to tell yu are wrong as GM, even better let the player come with a few things in mind
if you really really needto have gnome book... buythe elven book, remember good sales on that one means they would be interested in putting other books in the shelves
i would get it just for Merisiel inthe cover and because i need to know what is happening in the Mordant Spire
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Not having that source material is essentially telling the GMs when a Player asks what was it like living with my poeple, the GM has to answer "No idea, only one of the five major player races are worth being written about. Maybe we should play Forgotten Realms instead..."
And we certainly do not want that.
Despite being a fervent and oft-times strident supporter of a Gnomes of Golarion book, in my day not having something detailed in the source material was essentially telling the GM, "Go, play, have fun making up something weird and wacky and wonderful. WE'RE not going to contradict you. This is a game about making stuff up, so here's some practice!"
Maybe I'm just too damn old.
Be quiet you young punk! 30 ain't old at all. :)
What you say is true... for a home brew game. Golarion, however, is not a home brew game. In fact with Pathfinder Society it becomes an international experience... for humans only... demihumans need not apply :(
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What you say is true... for a home brew game. Golarion, however, is not a home brew game. In fact with Pathfinder Society it becomes an international experience... for humans only... demihumans need not apply :(
Pshaw. I, for one, am glad to get into PFS before the Gnomes of Golarion book comes out and gives people something to point at in geek rage when I tell them my Gnomish cleric of Rovagug doesn't "do healing".
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Pshaw. I, for one, am glad to get into PFS before the Gnomes of Golarion book comes out and gives people something to point at in geek rage when I tell them my Gnomish cleric of Rovagug doesn't "do healing".
ahhhthat would be a sight worthy seeing
actually if i may make a little recommendation... don't tell them... show them :) *evil grin* that will make the knowledge get marked into their foreheads... just ask them "are you really really sure?"
(i live in damnable desert,one day i brought an umbrella looking down, and a coworker asked in mockery tone "whydo you bring that", i just madealil movement and the rain that the umbrella had protected me from... rained on my co-worker... he got the idea, he still jokes about it... he never ever ask again)
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Also:
** spoiler omitted **
Oh, I didn't mean that the Forlorn were evil, but rather that they could be seen as maladjusted by "proper" elves and that they may actually be missing "something" the returned elves have. At least that's how I've read them so far. One more reason I'm really waiting for Elves of Golarion. :)
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Oh, I didn't mean that the Forlorn were evil, but rather that they could be seen as maladjusted by "proper" elves and that they may actually be missing "something" the returned elves have. At least that's how I've read them so far. One more reason I'm really waiting for Elves of Golarion. :)
Also:
** spoiler omitted **
Ewwww this is a cool idea. I think, regardless of the official stance, I will use this. Now to figure out what the missing "something" is...
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I was thinking the other way around. The elves that left and came back and stay in their communities are -more- vulnerable than the forlorn. kind of like how if you're never around germs, you're more vulnerable to catching something when you finally are.
That's actually the direction I'm coming from. I was thinking of Neil Gaiman's notion about fallen angels: Angels are more good than any mortal can ever hope to be, but if they do go bad they become far more evil than any mortal could ever be.
If there isn't a Gnomes of Golarion book, there will be riots in the streets and the very internet will crack in twain.
The CS IS mostly about humans, though. We'll be releasing a 32 page Elves of Golarion product in a few months, though, and if that does well we'll certainly consider doing the other races.
I think I'll apply for the job to write that. And I'll write it completely in Gnomish English, i.e. with more silent G's than you could ever count.
I'm capable of doing it, gnever doubt it. And I must say the gnotion appeals to me.