I apologize if someone's already brought this up, but I noticed a few things about the fey bloodline that gave me pause. First of all, I absolutely despise the irresistible dance spell; I lost two important villains (including a great black wyrm) to it before banning it from my games. Then I noticed, looking at the Alpha 3 sorcerer, that not only did they get that spell as part of their class, they also got an ability that lets them reroll any spell resistance roll, thus removing the only real obstacle there is for this spell to annihilate almost anything not immune to mind-affecting effects.
So here's how I picture it working: Sorcerer moves up to enemy, casts Irresistible Dance, makes his touch attack (since those are largely 'check for 1s' at higher levels). Checks for spell resistance, and against almost any target, if he's given two rolls he's most likely going to succeed. This results in the target, including a balor, a dragon, or that powerful-blackguard-you-spent-4-hours-building-and-wanted-to-be-a-climactic -battle DANCING HIMSELF TO DEATH over the course of 2-5 rounds, during which the entire party is free to pummel them with everything at their disposal; full attack sneak attacks, full attacks from fighters and barbarians, save-or-suck spells, etc. And if they dont' kill him in that time, the sorcerer, being a sorcerer, simply does it again. Not only is it almost a guaranteed victory, its humiliating for what should be a memorable villain.
Personally, I don't want Karzoug the Claimer to dance himself into oblivion when I've spent a year DMing Rise of the Runelords, and while that won't happen in my games because this spell won't exist, this makes it all too easy to do so in the core rules. Please, please, PLEASE fix the dance, at the very least.
Khalarak wrote: I apologize if someone's already brought this up, but I noticed a few things about the fey bloodline that gave me pause. First of all, I absolutely despise the irresistible dance spell; I lost two important villains (including a great black wyrm) to it before banning it from my games. Then I noticed, looking at the Alpha 3 sorcerer, that not only did they get that spell as part of their class, they also got an ability that lets them reroll any spell resistance roll, thus removing the only real obstacle there is for this spell to annihilate almost anything not immune to mind-affecting effects.
So here's how I picture it working: Sorcerer moves up to enemy, casts Irresistible Dance, makes his touch attack (since those are largely 'check for 1s' at higher levels). Checks for spell resistance, and against almost any target, if he's given two rolls he's most likely going to succeed. This results in the target, including a balor, a dragon, or that powerful-blackguard-you-spent-4-hours-building-and-wanted-to-be-a-climactic -battle DANCING HIMSELF TO DEATH over the course of 2-5 rounds, during which the entire party is free to pummel them with everything at their disposal; full attack sneak attacks, full attacks from fighters and barbarians, save-or-suck spells, etc. And if they dont' kill him in that time, the sorcerer, being a sorcerer, simply does it again. Not only is it almost a guaranteed victory, its humiliating for what should be a memorable villain.
Personally, I don't want Karzoug the Claimer to dance himself into oblivion when I've spent a year DMing Rise of the Runelords, and while that won't happen in my games because this spell won't exist, this makes it all too easy to do so in the core rules. Please, please, PLEASE fix the dance, at the very least.
o come on that is just funny defeating the end game villin dancing to death. there is lots of way to stop this if scared of this ring of mind shielding does wonders, or a simple dispel magic by hiring, or the evil gods bless him breaking the enchantment.
If your problem is with a save-or-sink spell that doesn't allow a save, yes, that's a problem with the system. A minor one (all things considered), given that it's an 8th level spell, that it can be dispelled (unlike some effects) by henchmen or contingencies, and that any melee foe should be able to turn a touch-spell wizard into hamburg by that point in the game. But, a problem all the same.
If your problem is with a spell that makes your brilliantly crafted Big Bad Evil Guy dance about like an idiot while the tanks prison-beat him, then yes, I'm afraid that's a problem with you, not the system. This is, in fact, completely awesome.
Edit: To try to be more helpful, if you've banned that dang spell then seeing it as a class feature should be no cause to abandon your guns. Either ban the fey bloodline with it or use a different spell as a replacement.
Maybe your bad guys should invest in a little protection from good?
I'm having a little trouble believing that an 8th-level spell which is utterly negated by a 1st level spell is truly game-breaking...
Khalarak wrote: Not only is it almost a guaranteed victory, its humiliating for what should be a memorable villain. Isn't dancing to death memorable?
I think it is.
Funny.
...but memorable.
Hydro wrote: or use a different spell as a replacement. Disintegrate?
Shisumo wrote: Maybe your bad guys should invest in a little protection from good?
I'm having a little trouble believing that an 8th-level spell which is utterly negated by a 1st level spell is truly game-breaking...
RagglefragglesacredcowgrumblestupidSage
fray wrote: Khalarak wrote: Not only is it almost a guaranteed victory, its humiliating for what should be a memorable villain. Isn't dancing to death memorable?
I think it is.
Funny.
...but memorable. It's memorable when it happens ONCE.
Ross Byers wrote: fray wrote: Khalarak wrote: Not only is it almost a guaranteed victory, its humiliating for what should be a memorable villain. Isn't dancing to death memorable?
I think it is.
Funny.
...but memorable. It's memorable when it happens ONCE. At twice it becomes retellable.
At three times (presuming the DM hadn't banned it yet) it becomes a legendary PC.
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