Good peoples of the Boards, Paizonians, lend me your ear....
Brandishes the Vorpal Scissors!
Okay, now that I have your attention, I would like to raise a point of discussion. One of things I find most frustrating about the OGL is that there are many products that we are all used to using that are not OGL. Dungeon and Dragon magazines, for example.
I wanted to ask the folks at Paizo if we may see a new resurgence of some old ideas. I for one liked the Savant character class a great deal. In fact I still plan on using it with the PFRPG. However, I would be curious to know if we might see a reinventing of some of the great ideas that are not available to the OGL.
Before someone asks why....I like the idea of an adventuring scholar class.
Before anyone mentions Bards....Bards are not scholars. They pick up knowledge here and there, but their other skills and abilities are too focused on music and magic.
Before someone mentions playing an Expert. An expert is not really all that viable an adventuring class.
As I said I like the Savant. It had a broad range of abilities at which they were okay. The class truly was a jack of all trades and master of none. I liked that about the class. Sure, its definitely not for everyone, but hey, I'd really like to see a class like it one day for Pathfinder RPG.
Anyone else with other ideas, feel free to post them.
RPG Superstar 2008 Top 32, 2011 Top 16
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Two small points. First, it might help the discussion if you refered to what source the Savant is from. I consider myself pretty familiar with most WOTC and some of the other OGL content, and I can't place it from just the name.
Second, it's been mentioned several times that new classes and races aren't being considered as part of the core Pathfinder RPG book. All of that stuff can come in future sourcebooks once the main RPG is a success. I wouldn't get your hopes up until after August 2009.
Another thing to remember is that, for your personal games, everything released that's compatible with 3rd Edition is still usable, with only minor to moderate tweaking.
So for your games, the Savant is still an option, you'll just have to alter the skill list, possibly HD, and that's about it.
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Come on now, people. He said "Dungeon and Dragon magazine" when he referenced the OGL and Savant class. Don't beat him up because he didn't specify.
That said, as someone mentioned, Pathfinder RPG is backward compatible with some tweaks. Feat progression, HD, and other minor things may change but the class should still be usable in the new game.
Thanks for the assist Fakey...
Interesting, I had no idea this was so obscure.
For mentioning something without stating the source (and having no idea how obscure it was) I apologize.
Second, folks, I DO realize that I can do whatever I can with my game. Obviously PFRPG is backwards compatible. However, I would love to see a new version that is actually OGL and not IP of WoTC.
The base character class, Savant first appears in Dragon #140 by Vince Garcia (December 1988). An updated and converted class appears in the Dragon Compendium on page 45. This version is a 3rd edition version. Thanks guys.
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So, if I begged and pleaded for a revision of the Loremaster PrC that makes it more playable youse guys would consider it?? I don't have the Savant write-up that the OP mentions but it does sound like the Loremaster. If so, the OP is NOT alone in his desire to play a scholarly PC. The Loremaster is my favorite to play but I have to negotiate every time to make it more playable as a PrC.
Remember, I'm not just begging; I'm begging and pleading.
-W. E. Ray
Count me in with Molech. Begging and pleading.
Part of what I liked about the Savant is that the extremely minor spellcasting you get it incidental. Its not what the class is really based around. I like that the class is based on skill versatility and support. To some people though, that sounds like a Bard. Trust me folks, if you've ever seen the class (and I suggest you check it out), its NOT a Bard. It does share some mechanical similarities (A Lore ability most obviously), but the class is entirely different in its feel and execution.
Thanks Eric! As Molech said too, we can't be the only ones who have a slightly different hankering for some new and inventive PC classes (or Reinvented).
Another example to compare to folks, the Savant (Dragon Compendium p45, or Dragon #140, Dec 1988) is similar in a few ways as the Factotum (DungeonScape p14-15). I'm sure someone will eventually make this comparison, so I'll do it first.
Aside from being better named, the Savant is a much less cumbersome class.
The Factotum (Who thought of that name?) instead gains a good portion of their benefits from an add-on mechanic. Inspiration points.
I am not a fan of add-on mechanics.
There are some classes where this sort of things works well. The Ninja from the Complete Adventurer comes to mind for one, the Ki Pool for Monks in the PFRPG Alpha as well. These I don't mind as it affects only a few certain special abilities. It also works specifically well with asian themed classes.
Nearly all of a Factotum's specials depend on Inspiration Points.
The Factotum does have some advantages over the Savant though, they get higher level spells. This might appeal to some people. It really doesn't to me. The Savant never gets any spells above 4th level, the Factotum can cast up to 7th level spells. I think the lower levels spells represents a 'dabbler' a bit better than being able to cast Limited Wish for a cost of 1 Inspiration Point.
Factotums are also selfish. They can use IPs to give themselves bonuses to skills and such, but thats it. The Savant fills the Mentor/Leader roles well. The Skill Assistance ability is far more useful to me and a much more inventive mechanic.
I also like the fact that the Savant gets a very small amount of sneak attack damage (3d6 over 20 levels) so that they really are a smattering of different classes.
Basically what it comes down to is this.
Both classes have a similar flavor. The Savant is much more elegant mechanically and has a broader, less-focused range of abilities that simply function.
The Factotum has a narrower, but longer-reaching abilities and yet they lack others entirely. So if you've ever played a Factotum, try a Savant. Its much more fun to play.
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RPG Superstar 2008 Top 32, 2011 Top 16
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Thanks for the assist Fakey...
Interesting, I had no idea this was so obscure.
For mentioning something without stating the source (and having no idea how obscure it was) I apologize.
Second, folks, I DO realize that I can do whatever I can with my game. Obviously PFRPG is backwards compatible. However, I would love to see a new version that is actually OGL and not IP of WoTC.
The base character class, Savant first appears in Dragon #140 by Vince Garcia (December 1988). An updated and converted class appears in the Dragon Compendium on page 45. This version is a 3rd edition version. Thanks guys.
Thanks for the reference. While I do own Dragon #140, I'm not digging it out any time soon, and I never picked up the Compendium (since I figured I owned almost all of the stuff from the original issues, even if they were cumbersome to dig out when I wanted a specific issue.)
From your later posts about the Savant's abilities, I'd almost say it would be cool to make a feat tree or two that represented the tactical awareness/advice giving and knowledge skill extra uses, etc. so that you could play a character of this type (who uses their brains to help deal with obstacles) with a variety of base classes. I can see playing a wizard, rogue or bard this way if there were options to do so, as well as a fighter, ranger or paladin.
So, if I begged and pleaded for a revision of the Loremaster PrC that makes it more playable youse guys would consider it?? I don't have the Savant write-up that the OP mentions but it does sound like the Loremaster. If so, the OP is NOT alone in his desire to play a scholarly PC. The Loremaster is my favorite to play but I have to negotiate every time to make it more playable as a PrC.
Remember, I'm not just begging; I'm begging and pleading.
-W. E. Ray
"Man...I got these cheeseburgers..."
(hopes only a select few places quote)
So, if I begged and pleaded for a revision of the Loremaster PrC that makes it more playable youse guys would consider it?? I don't have the Savant write-up that the OP mentions but it does sound like the Loremaster. If so, the OP is NOT alone in his desire to play a scholarly PC. The Loremaster is my favorite to play but I have to negotiate every time to make it more playable as a PrC.
Remember, I'm not just begging; I'm begging and pleading.
-W. E. Ray
"Man...I got these cheeseburgers..."
(hopes only a select few places quote)
Don't be a menace!!
Funny Funny
Brian