I've rolled it into Disable Device. I mean, if you can use that skill to disarm a magic trap, why can't you use it to trigger a wand? Of course, that could be problematic if a wizard wants to use a wand of cure light wounds, but in 28 years of gaming that particular eventuality has never come up (not that it couldn't!).
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I've rolled it into Disable Device. I mean, if you can use that skill to disarm a magic trap, why can't you use it to trigger a wand? Of course, that could be problematic if a wizard wants to use a wand of cure light wounds, but in 28 years of gaming that particular eventuality has never come up (not that it couldn't!).
Hmmm. That's an interesting thought. I hadn't really thought of that angle.
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I've rolled it into Disable Device. I mean, if you can use that skill to disarm a magic trap, why can't you use it to trigger a wand?
Funny, I go exactly the opposite direction. I'd roll disabling magical traps into Use Magic Device. I would actually prefer to call it Use/Disable Magical Device (along with it's sibling, Use/Disable Mechanical Device).
With regard to the OP, I too floated the idea making UMD a class skill for Bards, Rogues and Sorcerers in another thread. In my version, Bards, Rogues and Sorcerers could use their Charisma modifier to make a Spellcraft check (or Knowledge (arcana) or whatever it ends up being) to use magical items or disable magical traps.
Roll it into Spellcraft I say.
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I like the skill Use Magic Device.
I like Fighters (or anyone else) being able to take it. While most of them don't learn to use magic items, it definitely adds something to the game when a character has the added versatility involved with a skill like this.
I don't think you'll see it abused. Even with the 'weak' fighter you'll see most of them would prefer to do a full attack than get a 5d6 fireball from a magic wand.
I don't see it being a problem. If the fighter wants to put some of his precious few ranks into Use Magic Device, more power to him. I can't think of any way to really exploit the skill.
Plus, anything to make people not use charisma as their dump stat is good in my opinion.
(Of course, In my games, it's enough if I ask them "Are you sure you want to do that?" It's great being a GM. Between questions like that and The List, I have them live in fear >:))
Funny, I go exactly the opposite direction. I'd roll disabling magical traps into Use Magic Device. I would actually prefer to call it Use/Disable Magical Device (along with it's sibling, Use/Disable Mechanical Device).
Me likey.
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I think that UMD is a hold over from 2nd edition where thieves could read scrolls at 9th level, but it has a lot of other uses(I'm not getting into what they may be, cause I can't come up with any at the moment). The CHA ability is used to show the force of personality used to "convince" the item that you can use it. This kind of slips into the whole "Concentration should be a separate skill and Spellcraft rolled into Knowledge(arcana)" fiasco. It should remain a separate skill that should be accessable to Bards, Rogues, Sorcerer and Wizard classes. Using UMD to disable magig traps/locks is interesting. Making UMD a class ability is also an interesting idea. I
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A class is a combination of abilities that fit a theme.
One of the nice things about 3.5 is that you can bring more to your character than just the class abilities. For example, all Rangers have certain 'core aspects' in common. They all have a Fighting Style, they all have Track, and they all have Favored Enemies. Now, they also get feats every three levels.
These feats let a player 'break' the stereotype to a degree. And that is a good thing. Not every Ranger SHOULD be like every other ranger.
So, allowing a class to purchase a skill without the +3 class bonus means that you could have fighters using wands. It is a resource allocation, and it means they're not allocating that resource to something else. And a fighter that has lots of ranks in Use Magic Device may very well be different than one that has lots of ranks in Climb. The explanation for those differences is part of what makes the game appealing.
Yes but, the fighter trick a Holy Avenger Sword using Use Magic Device, and attack the evil enemy.
So? Is it that bad that he gets the correct mileage (or maybe a bit more) out of it instead of only a fraction? Getting only 11.000gp of use out of a 120.000 gp item isn't nice.
He could use a +5 holy sword without any ranks in anything, the SR will help only against weak enemies, anyway, and the dispel isn't that useful, either, as it is area only.
D&D it's a game of stereotype (a fighter, a barbarian, a wizard, etc.), if Pathfinder too, then Use Magic Device can not to be available for all class, in the contrary if it's not a stereotype game, but then why use the class, the major represent of stereotype in rpg?
D&D 3e/PF RPG isn't a game of strictly enforced stereotypes. I call that one of the major advantages over earlier (and later) editions.
Class-based systems have their advantages, but they have many disadvantages, too. I wouldn't want to play a fully class-based system, but 3e dealt with many of its disadvantages by giving you a great deal of choices that aren't tied to a particluar class (and by letting you mix classes).
So you can have a fighter who knows how to pick a lock, wizards who can wield a sword, and so on. The flexibility of the 3e class system is one of its greatest strengths and should not be lessened in any way.
I don't call those games that fully enforce their stereotypes real RPGs. They're glorified boardgames at best.
Plus, the design philosophy of Pathfinder RPG is "add options, but take none away". Getting rid of the skill in order to turn it into a class ability would definetly invalidate a number of previously valid character options.
I always thought of UMD as a variant of 'aura control'. Basically, you manipulate your life-energy into patterns that mimic things you aren't, enabling the use of magics normally forbidden to you.
Of course, I'm also one of those whackos that liked the concept of the Chameleon PrC in Races of Destiny, so feel free to take this interpretation with more salt than normal.
Except, you know, UMD is far better than just about every other skill.
"Just about" being the key word.
Meaning, "a good skill", but not the hands-down best.It lets you do what the wizard does after he runs out of spells. Except that, even then, you aren't doing it as well as the wizard.
It's very handy in a variaty of situations, just like heal, or acrobatics. But if you don't typically have anything better to do with your standard actions than fiddle with a wand or scroll (low caster level and all), then your character probably isn't built very well.
It does let you get away with some odd combos though, most of which I just houseruled out of existence (like high caster level scrolls of Tenser's Transformation).
While it's not very original, my take would be to have "Use magic device" as a class feature which lets you achieve said effects using Spellcraft.
Here is an idea. Implement a -10 penalty for not being a rogue, or a caster type to use that skill. That way a fighter still can get it eventually, but drastically weaker, and the others still keep their niche.
Here is an idea. Implement a -10 penalty for not being a rogue, or a caster type to use that skill. That way a fighter still can get it eventually, but drastically weaker, and the others still keep their niche.
Casters make sense but why rogue?
It would work but it sounds arbitrary.
Except, you know, UMD is far better than just about every other skill.
If you're saying that even one rank in UMD is far better than one rank in just about every other skill, I'll have to disagree with you there. In 3.5, I usually found one level of cleric (with the Magic domain) was more useful most of the time, anyways.
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I don't think that Use Magic Device is 'much better' than most other skills. It isn't frequently used in our games because the DCs are high enough that it doesn't work at low levels, and at high levels characters usually have other actions that are more 'appropriate' for them.
Using a wand of fireball isn't any better, really, than using the Scorching Ray from a Flame Tongue. Since most items 'non-casters' will use can be had in potion form or in the form of a command activated item, there isn't much call for the skill. The best use seems to be to have rogues (or some other class) using it to operate healing wands outside of combat.
But to each his own. My point, if I have one, is that Use Magic Device has never been a problem in my game. If some people like it, I don't think a well-meaning majority needs to 'nerf' it for those people. Keep it in the game, keep it as is, and if you don't like it for your game, Rule 0 it. Allowing other classes to use magic items adds flexibility. Generally, adding flexibility is good, unless it creates a major power gap. Since all classes have equal access to the skill, it does not create a power gap. Therefore, it should be left as is.