The Player's Handbook is not in the SRD, and thus cannot be legally used by Paizo to convert its stuff into Pathfinder.
This being said, any player can make his own conversion, but cannot post it here.
Hi there,
sorry if this is in the wrong place.
Has anyone done any conversions of the PHII classes and such to Pathfinder?
Just curious :)
Beguilers get unlimited cantrips and sorcerer spell progression.
Done.
;)
For the most part, non "core" classes don't really need to be tweaked to much beyond the obvious changes that Pathfinder makes to the system as a whole (for example, skills).
to add to that match HD with BAB other then that and the cantrips thats about it for most of em.
Beguiler:
Unlimited Cantrips; Sorcerer Spell Progession
Dragon Shaman:
d8 hit die (first downgrade I've noticed since I started looking at classes through "Pathfinder" glasses)
Duskblade:
Unlimited Cantrips; d10 hit die (I'm almost inclined to drop the BAB rather than up the hit die in this case)
Knight:
No real change in this case (unless you think a d12 is too high for them, but honestly, doesn't bother me too much)
Actually, the Barbarian and other base standard classes seem to establish a rule on hit die size- it can either stay the same or increase, never decrease (at least that's my read on the situation-YMMV) So Knight and Dragon Shaman retain their HD (d12 and d10, respectively) even though those are bigger than would otherwise be the case. This also affects the Soulknife which keeps d10 even with 3/4 BAB. PH II is not OGL but it is one thing along with the Complete X series, the Races of ... series, the Heroes of ... series and the Monster Tomes series (Draconomicon, Libris Mortis, etc) that I, at least, HOPE WotC releases to the OGL at SOME point.
to add to that match HD with BAB
Don't!
Many of those classes are good enough as it stands. Especially the duskblade.
I'd keep the matchup to the core classes and maybe selected others, but not generally.
Unless you downgrade across the line, that is. Duskblades with medium BAB!
Unless you downgrade across the line, that is. Duskblades with medium BAB!
I actually would be inclined to do this, as Duskblades, like bards, would then be a medium BAB, "3/4" caster progression class with a d8, for an arcane caster.
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PH II is not OGL but it is one thing along with the Complete X series, the Races of ... series, the Heroes of ... series and the Monster Tomes series (Draconomicon, Libris Mortis, etc) that I, at least, HOPE WotC releases to the OGL at SOME point.
I wouldn't count on it. Wizards seems to be putting most of their effort in 4th edition and if they were going to add the splat books to OGL they would have done it already. The d20 Modern site hasn't been updated in almost two years now and many of the Star Wars Saga Edition books have had their release dates pushed back several times. In fact the only reason that Star Wars was rereleased at all was as an experiment to pave the way for 4th edition.
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I actually would be inclined to do this, as Duskblades, like bards, would then be a medium BAB, "3/4" caster progression class with a d8, for an arcane caster.Unless you downgrade across the line, that is. Duskblades with medium BAB!
A Duskblade's effectiveness depends on his ability to hit, and this is why he has the high BAB. The tradeoff is that he has a very limited spell list.
The Player's Handbook is not in the SRD, and thus cannot be legally used by Paizo to convert its stuff into Pathfinder.
This being said, any player can make his own conversion, but cannot post it here.
Actually you can post your own versions of these classes here. As long as they're just fan conversions and you're not trying to get them published or marketed it's perfectly all right to do so.
That said: beyond matching up the BAB/HD for most classes and adding the unlimited cantrips/orisons thing I think that the only classes in need of any real tweaking are the lackluster swashbuckler and the underpowered ninja (i.e. replace sudden strike with gool old sneak attack).
And,...I don't think the word "ninja" is WOTC's trademarked property...
Hell no!
A Duskblade's effectiveness depends on his ability to hit, and this is why he has the high BAB. The tradeoff is that he has a very limited spell list.
That's no tradeoff. He has all he needs: Extra Damage Magic.
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An idea is not copyrighted, just the presentation of the idea or text- such as names- like Yuan-ti. In the case of classes the idea is really the role and concept behind fulfilling the role. So, you could easily take those ideas and just run with them.
The way to protect ideas is with a patent, and as far as I know WOTC has not patented any of their ideas.
So if someone wanted to make a new version of the knight, they could do so, as long as they are not plagurizing (sp?).
Ya see, if we start putting really cool mods on splat classes or otehr classes, we just make it easier for Paizo to publish their own splat books later. Which we all know we will buy...
cause PAIZO ROCKS! *leaps in the air shouting*
"ahem" *looks around sheepishly* "no one saw that right"
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That said: beyond matching up the BAB/HD for most classes and adding the unlimited cantrips/orisons thing I think that the only classes in need of any real tweaking are the lackluster swashbuckler and the underpowered ninja (i.e. replace sudden strike with gool old sneak attack).Bwah ha ha, so then you think the samuri is up to par? or the hexblade? if you upgrade those four classes though I am in complete agreement.
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And,...I don't think the word "ninja" is WOTC's trademarked property...
;)
Doesn't Michael Dudikoff own the trademark?
I think the PHB II classes are perfecty on par with the Pathfinder Alpha classes, seeing how at least the Beguiler and Duskblade were slightly overpowered in comparison to the 3.5 PHB classes and the Knight and Dragon Shaman seem to be quite okay, too.
I´d rather think that some of the new core classes released in the Complete series need some help. Obviously not the full casters from Complete Arcane and Complete Divine, but the Hexblade, Swashbuckler, Samurai from Complete Warrior all would be in need of a serious overhaul. As for the classes from the Complete Adventurer ( Ninja, Spell Thief and Scout ), I think they are okay in power level, more or less like the Knight and Dragon Shaman. As for the Warlock, I really couldn´t say. Seems still okay to me, from what I can see.
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Honestly it seems like with the complete books the only one that managed to get the power level right with 3.5 core is the complete warrior, every other book managed to up the power level. so really you would be fine running any other book without conversion but the complete warrior classes would need some work.
Obviously not the full casters from Complete Arcane and Complete Divine, but the Hexblade, Swashbuckler, Samurai from Complete Warrior all would be in need of a serious overhaul.
That's for sure! A Paizo fighter/rogue is now 10x better than a swashbuckler... well, then maybe the swashbuckler could just be superceded by the ftr/rog, and left out of the mix altogether? And a fighter or paladin would make an acceptable samurai, and a rogue makes a decent ninja as-is. I've never looked closely at the hexblade... could we replace him with an OGL battle sorcerer, and give him a "hex bloodline"?
I've never looked closely at the hexblade... could we replace him with an OGL battle sorcerer, and give him a "hex bloodline"?
Hm, I don´t know, his Hexblade Curse class feature could of course be taken as a bloodline power. But in all other regards he is a distinctive class, though the poor cousin of the Duskblade.
Strong BAB, D10, full weapon proficiencies, yet only light armor proficiency, no shield proficiency, and only 2+INT skillpoints. And his spell selection isn´t all that hot to begin with. Poor guy really needs an upgrade in relation to the Alpha classes.
And I am always sad that the Swashbuckler is so damned weak after third level. I love the concept of the class.
Bwah ha ha, so then you think the samuri is up to par? or the hexblade? if you upgrade those four classes though I am in complete agreement.
That said: beyond matching up the BAB/HD for most classes and adding the unlimited cantrips/orisons thing I think that the only classes in need of any real tweaking are the lackluster swashbuckler and the underpowered ninja (i.e. replace sudden strike with gool old sneak attack).The title of the thread is "Player's Handbook II conversions". I was not addressing all the classes. As a 3.5 class (as opposed to the PFRPG) the samurai does just fine. At least the one in my campaign mows through everything I throw at him.
Variant of ancient saying: It's not the class - it's how you play it.
The CW samurai stinks. The OA samurai was much better, but then they 4e'd the samurai in 4e, by taking one of the weirdest fighting styles any samurai ever does and making it standard (fighting with katana and wakizashi at once) and giving him other stuff that all in all didn't even start to live up to OA's samurai, which in my opinion captured the mix of noble and warrior rather well.
RPG Superstar 2008 Top 32, 2011 Top 16
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And,...I don't think the word "ninja" is WOTC's trademarked property...
;)Doesn't Michael Dudikoff own the trademark?
Actually, I'm pretty sure the ninja trademark is owned by this website:
Also, It would be unwise for them to put ALL their eggs in one basket when there are so many of us that will still buy 3.5 books such as these. They can sell 4.0 and 3.5 simultaneously as an insurance policy incase it tanks. (Probably isn't going to tank completly) This will just broaden their profits a bit.
Also, It would be unwise for them to put ALL their eggs in one basket when there are so many of us that will still buy 3.5 books such as these. They can sell 4.0 and 3.5 simultaneously as an insurance policy incase it tanks. (Probably isn't going to tank completly) This will just broaden their profits a bit.
They don't want their 3eggs any more. Only 4eggs. Plus, they would look really dumb if they kept doing 3e stuff after they slandered it all over the place during their 4e propaganda...
Honestly it seems like with the complete books the only one that managed to get the power level right with 3.5 core is the complete warrior, every other book managed to up the power level. so really you would be fine running any other book without conversion but the complete warrior classes would need some work.
(Emphasis added)
I would disagree with this statement. I agree that some of the Complete Series classes look a lot stronger when you read them, but most of them aren't so bad when you play them. In particular, I'm thinking of the Scout and the Favored Soul. Comparing the Scout to a Rogue and comparing the Favored Soul to a Cleric, I think the original 3.5 PHB classes are still a bit stronger. (I've played Scouts and Favored Souls both in campaigns of decent length). When you factor in the changes in the PRPG, I think they fall even further behind to some extent. I think they could use some tweaking, and I'd love to see this community come up with some reasonable changes to all of the Complete Series classes and PHB2 Classes.
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Other than some minor tweaking, most of them are OK. Beguiler, Knight, and Dragon Shaman are fine, other than the minor BAB -> HD linking.
As mentioned above, the Swashbuckler, CW Samurai (horrible), and to a lesser extent Hexblade are all rather anemic. Most of the other extra base classes added in splat books are workable as is without much upgrading.
Scout needs no tweaking (other than a d8 HD), and the Ninja is fairly good, although a level based bonus to stealth and acrobatics akin to the new Monk abilities in PF would be appropriate. The Ninja should also get a few extra Ki based abilities, some of which could be easily lifted from the Monk as well.
Other than some minor tweaking, most of them are OK. Beguiler, Knight, and Dragon Shaman are fine, other than the minor BAB -> HD linking.
As mentioned above, the Swashbuckler, CW Samurai (horrible), and to a lesser extent Hexblade are all rather anemic. Most of the other extra base classes added in splat books are workable as is without much upgrading.
Scout needs no tweaking (other than a d8 HD), and the Ninja is fairly good, although a level based bonus to stealth and acrobatics akin to the new Monk abilities in PF would be appropriate. The Ninja should also get a few extra Ki based abilities, some of which could be easily lifted from the Monk as well.
The scout already had a d8 HD. In 3.5 terms the scout far outstripped the rogue in the environment he was designed for (i.e. the Great Outdoors). The only modification I would make to the scout to put him on par with the PFRPG rogue would be to give him favored terrains perhaps.
And I'd let the knight keep his d12 hit die. Plus I'd give him a good Fort save because it seem incongrous for him to be weak in that area. I don't think this would be particulary balance breaking since the ranger and paladin have multiple good saves.
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The scout already had a d8 HD. In 3.5 terms the scout far outstripped the rogue in the environment he was designed for (i.e. the Great Outdoors). The only modification I would make to the scout to put him on par with the PFRPG rogue would be to give him favored terrains perhaps.
And I'd let the knight keep his d12 hit die. Plus I'd give him a good Fort save because it seem incongrous for him to be weak in that area. I don't think this would be particulary balance breaking since the ranger and paladin have multiple good saves.
Would you mirror the rangers terrains or make your own. I was thinking have everything pretty much the same but instead of the +1 to init maybe a +5ft to speed. I thinks scouts should be fast so I like this option, plus their Battle Fortitude bonus already increases their Init.
I would start the Favored Terrain at 2nd level and every four. 6,10,14, and 18 are pretty lean anyway.
The only splat class to make the top 5 so far as I remember would be the Archivist.
Seeing that Wizards and Clerics both got boosted (remains to see how Druid will fall out with all the changes- nerf, boost, or neutral?), and I forget the 5th off hand though, it seems most splat-classes will need at least some adjustment to keep on par with where they were.
Myself, I'm interested in seeing what folks would tack onto Warlock to make it more interesting. A weaker twist on the bloodline thing perhaps?
Regardless, I agree that the splat-classes should receive equaltreatment to their core brothers even if only by the hands of the community. (can't really see WotC doing it, can you?)
-S
Myself, I'm interested in seeing what folks would tack onto Warlock to make it more interesting. A weaker twist on the bloodline thing perhaps?
Maybe split his invokations into invokations, blast shapes, and eldritch essences. Make the advancement in each separate and increase the overall number of things he gets.
So instead of, say, having 5 invokations at a certain level, he'd have 3 invokations, 2 shapes, and 2 essences (or something like that).
That would mean he'd get more powers, but would have a bit of forced versatility. He couldn't blow it all on shapes or essences or invokations. Treat shapes and essences as part of his eldritch blast.