We had a great game, using the Alpha 3 rules, over the weekend and wanted to share our playtest feedback same as before. It’s laid out slightly differently to our previous reports as the material has been ‘out there’ in it’s entirety for a while, so we are only commenting on the changes that directly effected our game, rather than including all of our player’s feedback and opinions on all of the new changes. Play is at approximately 17th Level, using the Planescape setting.
We’re all really excited about the Beta and are looking forward to getting our mitts on printed copies. The cost of printing the Alpha in a sturdy format is comparable to buying a print edition of the Beta and we’d rather that money went straight to Paizo.
We hope that you guys (the designers) get a chance to read this before the Beta goes to the printers.
Once again thanks to Paizo for letting us take part in the open playtest and for listening to their customers.
Peace,
tfad
The first half of our game involved a lot of roleplay and no die rolling apart from a few skill and Knowledge (appropriate) checks. It was a culmination of sorts of one of the on going plot threads and much fun was had by all.
The second half of our game featured some exciting combat and a couple of issues with the Alpha 3, so we’ll pick up things as the PCs are searching for a magical gate, hidden in one of the warehouses in Dis that house supplies for the Blood Wars. Some magical runes guarded the warehouse and the Paladin had the opportunity to use Break Enchantment (Alpha p34). Tactics were discussed and a decision was made. Given that the Paladin has such a low caster level, much the same as with Dispel Magic, it is not a fully useable option. It looks good on paper, but will likely be a last resort if no other means are available. It could have been used in tandem with Diviner’s Fortune (Alpha p82), from the group’s Wizard, but it was decided it was better to use Dimension Door to hop past the runes and guarantee the element of surprise.
That was exactly what happened and the two priests that were waiting inside were cut down in short order. It was another chance for use to use the CMB rules and it worked out fine. There has been a lot of discussion on the Paizo boards about the base DC being too high (Alpha p77) for CMB checks. We think they are just about right and have had the desired effect on our games. Namely, our large sized 18 strength Wizard has stopped grappling everything in sight as grappling is no longer such a one-sided death trap. Also it is so much easier to work out and adjudicate in game. Please don’t lower the CMB DC – it works fine where it is. We felt it likely that some of the complaints were from the “grapple-happy” camp (like our Wizard) who felt their builds were threatened.
The priests were never supposed to be a challenge and were there to support the main threat – a ten-headed, magically enhanced hydra. Wisely the PCs split them up, preventing cures and buffs being cast upon the Hydra, and having dealt with the priests, moved on to fight it. This would’ve been another great chance to test the CMB rules, but the PCs got their Hydra legends mixed up and resolved to stay at range, or rather, up high where the beast could not reach them.
Afraid to sever the heads for fear of more growing in their place, all of the attacks were aimed at the body. The Hydra soon worked out that it could half climb the walls to reach the hovering PCs. At this point the fight turned nasty and the Wizard died, after coming up with a great plan and then, for some reason or another, not following it (!). The rest of the party followed through on the dead Wizard’s plan and Planeshifted the Hydra. However, with the Wizard gone, destinations were limited and the open ocean on the material plane was selected.
The Hydra was capable of making his swim checks but could not keep up with the Paladin’s mount or the flying carpet and got pecked to death. This situation bought up, again, the fact that a Paladin’s mount is only summonable once per day, when a bonded spirit imbued weapon (the class’ new toy) can be used more than once (Alpha p32-33). This isn’t very fair on the mount-choosing Paladins, and the two should be usable the same number of times as it is the same thing. Please don’t forget the trusty mount in favor of the shiny new toys!
We discussed this and decided that it would not be unbalanced to let the Paladin have both abilities, but drawing both abilities from the same times-per-day pool. Holy Sword and Holy Mount are two of the classic abilities for Paladins and it’d be nice to see both of them available within a single progression of the class. A lot of the anti-summon a mount more than once arguments (here on the Paizo boards) seemed centred around the mount’s storage capacity. We would be happy to see this go, if we could make use of the summon-mount ability more than once per day.
This battle also highlighted another problem we encountered with the Alpha 3 Paladin, something we also mentioned in our other feedback. The changes to Lay on Hands are pretty awesome and, for the most part, welcome. However there is a problem with the amount healed per use (Alpha p31), an amount equal to the Paladin’s level is too small. Our Paladin has gone from being able to restore all of her HP to being able to restore 17 HP – 17 HP at 17th level is nothing. Sure the overall amount of healing per day has vastly increased, but the time she can spend on the front line has halved.
This makes a huge difference to party tactics as the Paladin now takes multiple rounds to heal themselves. This would’ve completely changed some of the previous scenarios the party has faced, reducing the frontline by 25%* - and you do not want 25% of anything in amongst the Sorcerers, the Wizard and the Psion.... It may well have a similar effect on published modules. Our simple suggestion is to allow the Paladin to use as many charges of the Lay on Hands ability as they like in a single action.
However, that fix isn’t entirely elegant (there are a lot of other abilities you can’t blow all of your charges at once with) and an increasing amount, based on level, is probably needed. Something comparable to their caster level (i.e. half class level) would be about right.
Either way this has had a massive impact on the way the Paladin class plays and can be played and requires some consideration.
After the battle, the party rested up and had the Wizard restored to life**. Plans were then put into motion, with the gate secured, to assault the demi-plane-fortress-cathedral that was on the other side of the gate. The acrobatics skill (Alpha p54-55) got a thorough testing on both sides of the screen as our tumbling Paladin took on some tumbling monks and numerous leaps and jumps were made around and over some falling/fallen masonry. The same goes for the fly skill (Alpha p58-59). We’re happy with both and neither needs any further refinement or changes.
Channel Energy (Alpha p75-76) saw use during the battle more than once. After using it in more than one game, we’re starting to get a good handle on how it works and how it plays out. It is 100 times more simple than the 3.X version, and that’s a good thing. It is also a lot more flavorfull and ‘feels’ more exciting. It’s also a lot more powerful – the raw damage is larger and the healing effect adds to the ‘bang to buck’ ratio. We like – we like a lot!
Play was halted briefly to discuss (argue?) over Power Attack (Alpha p67). We know that combat feats are changing with the Beta release, and are hoping that Power Attack gets a little something to balance it out – the advantage of wielding a weapon in both hands is much larger than the advantage of taking a shield. By quite a bit. We’re not suggesting lowering Power Attack even further, but instead building up the shield-wielder’s options.
The best solution would be to offer the shield user a new feat (as Power Attack is a feat) that offered a mechanical advantage for using it e.g. increased shield bonus to AC.
The party and their allies fled the fortress when a third party became involved in the battle, leaving with the item they came for! Taking the time to save some of the raiders who were trapped in a trapped room, they did very well but had completely expended their resources, bar a few turning, sorry channelling, attempts. I mention this because they lasted a fair bit longer than their 3.X counterparts would’ve done. The extra ‘oomph’ the core classes have been handed has, for our group at least, killed the ’15 minute adventuring day’. We know this a big issue for some groups and wanted to take the opportunity to praise where praise is due - well done!
One of the highlights of the PCs’ increased staying power has to be the abilities that can only be used once per day (ironically enough) per person. I’m talking about things like (the amazing) Heavenly Fire (Alpha p43-45), Touch of Destiny (Alpha p45) and Diviner’s Fortune (Alpha p82). These are great as the players find themselves looking for someone to share their power with who hasn’t used it yet today. Okay they’re walking around thinking about ‘touching up’ as many NPCs as possible, but this works so well. Through the action of the PCs looking to share their powers, they more naturally become the centre of whatever is going on, as a hero should be.
Examples from all of our Alpha sessions include helping the sages doing research for the PCs (an action which previously had nothing to do with the PCs, now sees them actively helping), healing the innocent caught up in battle without ‘wasting charges’ (I am in love with Heavenly Fire) and including the un-named extras fully in the scene, by giving them temporary boosts whilst feeling like you did something. In a word – awesome! Another triumph of the Pathfinder system that we’re looking forward to using for years to come.
With that, all that remained was some down time to divide up the treasure and consider their next moves. –FIN-
* We have two frontliners, Paladin and Psychic Warrior, splitting the defence between them. With the Paladin only able to spend half as long on the frontline, that’s a loss of 25%. I am not a jumbo-math dude.
** This was our first brush with the changes to bringing back the dead that Pathfinder made. Reincarnate (Alpha p115) was considered at first because it doesn’t suck anymore. Previously the spell was simply a joke spell – something you cast if you fancied a laugh and didn’t really care too much about the character. I never saw anyone take that chance with a beloved character. The new table has removed all of the ‘wacky’ rolls (e.g. mushrooms, ducks etc.) and the LA you may gain is not too bad, it was a good design choice to keep it low.
However, in the end our player went for Resurrection/Restoration (Alpha p116-117) combo. At 17th level the price is not a big factor. The new substitute for XP drain works, but once you get to high levels it doesn't mean much. Whilst this works for our group (we like to make light of death and keep on gaming, we love the Ghostwalk book but aren’t using it in our current game), it really takes the sting out of death. This will not please everyone. At lower levels the price barrier keeps death a bit more of a problem.
Great notes!
Thank you!
Good stuff!
Thanks for posting your playtest.
Thanks guys for taking the time to read it. :D
Last year I was gaming at 2-3 times per week, however I'm about to ship off to the other side of the world with no idea what my gaming prospects are going to be. Makes me wish that Paizo had been doing the open playtest last year, I could've contributed so much more!
Ah well. Seriously, I am thrilled to be a part of this and really believe in what Paizo are doing.
Peace,
tfad