Pathfinder RPG, page 38. wrote: Trapfinding: Rogues (and only rogues) can use the
Perception skill to locate traps when the task has a
Difficulty Class higher than 20.
I have never understood this rule in D&D, either. Why should I multiclass just to be able to locate dangerous traps? I especially do not understand this is Pathfinder, when the walls between classes has definitely lowered. The ranger does not have the Track ability, and a even a non-ranger can track with the survival skill. There is no penalty on buying non-class skills.
If the reason is that Perception is a way too generic skill to include the findig of more dangerous traps, and we assume that the Rogue has some special training in this field, then maybe this problem could be solved with a "Trapfinding" feat.
My other problem is with the rogue talents. These either focus on combat or the rogue's sneaking ability. According to the original rogue concept:
D&D PHB page 49. wrote: Some are stealthy thieves. Others are silver-tounged tricksters. Still others are scouts, spies, diplomats or thugs.
I would be happy if I were able to see some talents that strengthen the "silver tounged trickster" or "diplomat" side of the rogue. Maybe the rogue could be made able to retry a failed Diplomacy check (she can lie so fluently). Maybe she could gain some bonus social skills (like she is able to get Weapon finesse, a combat maneuver or Weapon focus as a talent). Maybe she could gain bonuses in social skills against some races (not unlike the ranger can choose racial enemies).
What do you think?
I completely and whole-heartedly agree with you. I'd love to see the return of the non-combat rogue. However, specific game mechanics, I have non at the moment.
I agree with the OP. I'd like to see rogues with non-combat options (diplomat, detective, etc).
I disagree that we need to do away with trapfinding for the Rogue.
Leave the poor guys their schtick.
-S
The reason trapfinding has been left to the rogues so far is that search is not just for them.
trapfinding only applies to traps. A Ranger with a high search modifier can still find secret doors like its nobody's business but he still hasn't learned what kinds of mechanisms can be put inside of them or how to detect them.
With search being rolled into perception this makes this distinction all the more important. Soon we'll have bards with high perception doing just as well at finding doors as the ranger and rogue. Traps, on the other hand, will still be a rogue only specialty because of trapfinding.
Trapfinding as a feat, isn't a terrible idea but it should be at least a 2nd tier feat. Maybe Skill Focus(Perception) as a prereq to prevent players from making Rangers and the like with 1 feat spent to replace the rogue.
You may argue that even if they find the trap they still won't have ranks is Disarm (or whatever it was rolled into). I'd argue that the DMG itself has a list of ways to get past traps without disarming them, even an example of just smashing the trap to pieces.
(Edit:) PS. I agree with non-combat talents. That's be pretty cool. Even a talent that's just +5 skill points would help focus on all these skills.
Trapfinding as a feat is a good idea, partys without Rogue can search tramps if anyone adquire the feat and no necessary one level of Rogue for the same.
Anothers option for the class, yes, thats it's good too.
Pardon for my english
I think Rangers should be given an option like "Hazard finding", but not Trap finding. That would fit the ranger better. One suggestion I read was to create some "Favored Class" feats that would make having a favored class really count for something.
I also agree that I would like to see some non-combat options for Rogue talents, especially for a Investigator-type rogue or a Tomb Raider-type rogue.
Dark Psion wrote: I think Rangers should be given an option like "Hazard finding", but not Trap finding. That would fit the ranger better. One suggestion I read was to create some "Favored Class" feats that would make having a favored class really count for something.
I also agree that I would like to see some non-combat options for Rogue talents, especially for a Investigator-type rogue or a Tomb Raider-type rogue.
I actually play an archeologist tomb-raider type rogue with my group. Its hard to even find feats that fit that concept. I had to come up with a backstory of how my Rogue even has sneak attack. My rogue went to college, so I figured fencing classes or something.
Anyways...
What I would like to see is Trapfinding be made a feat with prerequsites I like the Skill Focus (perception), or maybe just some skill ranks in it. Rogues get Trapfinding for free, w/o meeting prereqs, just like a Ranger with his fighting styles, which I feel effects the game more than Trapfinding. I'd also kinda like to see Rogues get a 1/2 lv bonus on Disable Device, or whatever skill its been rolled into this round of Alpha, but I'm still undecided.
I've actually always had a problem with trapfinding being given to rogues. I tend to play a lot of charisma-based rogues, conmen, diplomats, things like that.
My suggestion would be to change trapfinding to a feat and give rogues a bonus feat at first level, with Trapfinding being an option, as well as a couple of others.
I have designed a non-combat rogue (did away with sneak attack in return for bonuses in social skills, and traded trapfinding out for... something that I can't remember now).
On a similar note, I would also like to see rogues get HiPS. I've always found it odd that rangers got it and rogues don't... it all but requires a dip in shadowdancer, as invisibility of any kind becomes superfluous at higher levels, unless you are pumping out enough money for scrolls of superior invis contantly.
Trapfinding is a sacred cow. Like many other system remnants, it exists to punish parties which do not include one rogue, one cleric, one wizard and one fighter. It doesn't make sense, but it's still here.
In Alpha 3 it managed yet again to avoid the slaughter. We'll see how it does in Beta.
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