New Fighter Class Feature... CMB Training

[anthony Valente]

How about giving the fighter class an ability similar in concept to Armor Training and Weapon Training, but applied to CMB?

Pardon the lame name, but it could be something like Combat Maneuver Training. It could give an overall bonus to the fighter's CMB based on level (+1 every 4 levels, max +4) when performing a CMB as well as add to the DC of an opponent trying to perform one on the fighter.

I've seen posts recently that the fighter should be more tactical than others in overall combat. Not sure I completely agree with that concept, but it provided the seed for this idea.

Any thoughts?

[Freesword]

I've had thoughts along this line myself. My initial concept was to simply add 1/2 fighter level (not exactly the most popular mechanic to suggest around here). Since fighter only feats are unpopular as well (and not a complete solution in and of themselves) I had been working on the idea of a class ability adding a flat +4 at levels 8 and 16 for a total +8. I may be giving too much of a bonus however and your way would probably be more balanced and better received.

Combat maneuvers should be a staple of what a fighter is learning. More so than any of the combat full BAB classes. Fighting, tactics, it's what they train for.

There are those who will say that Combat Maneuvers should be the domain of the Monk. While I agree that Monks should be better than their BAB would indicate (which they are in Pathfinder), I do not feel they need this "niche" as their purpose for existing. Their niche is a specialized version of the fighter that the basic fighter does poorly within the limitations of the rules. Much like the Barbarian.

[Slime]

Interesting concept. I'd feel better about CMB being included as a Weapon training group.

[Majuba]

I suggested something close to this here.

Essentially interspersing Combat training with Armor and Weapon Training.

[ecobos]

You should check the Fighter Redesign thread

[lastknightleft]

Um CMBs are now practically useless to anyone without full BAB and that would widen the gap even further.

[golem101]

I'd say no.

The fighter already has a very good bonus feat progression (plus the faster standard feat progression of the PFRPG), and thus an easier access to appropriate feats such as Improved Sunder, Bull Rush, etc.

I understand the desire to make the class a very effective combat machine, but please don't supercharge it too much.

[Majuba]

lastknightleft wrote:

Um CMBs are now practically useless to anyone without full BAB and that would widen the gap even further.

CMB's can be difficult to use for those without full BAB, against those with full BAB. This is only slightly changed from 3.5. CMB's are still useful against those with less than full BAB (rogue vs. rogue, cleric vs. wizard, what have you).

You have a good point though - adding up to +10 at 20th level to all fighter CMB's would be fairly extreme.

[Cyd the Arcmagi]

Slime wrote:

Interesting concept. I'd feel better about CMB being included as a Weapon training group.

I made a suggestion in this thread about doing just that.

Cyd the Arcmagi wrote:

How about changing the name of Weapon Training to something like Combat Training then have Combat Maneuvers groups and Weapon groups that you select from?

Like the Combat Training options would be:
Axes
Heavy Blades
Light Blades
Bows
Close Weapons
Crossbows
Double Weapons
Flails
Monk Weapons
Pole Arms
Spears
Thrown Weapons
and
"Charging": Bull Rush and Overrun
"anti-weapon":Disarm and Sunder
"Close-Quarter":Grapple and Trip

The names may be lame, but I think it would work well without making the Fighter the god-of-CMBs