I'm very disappointed that the list of monk weapons is as restricted as it has ever been.
After Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon and Hero, I think the archetype of the wuxia swordsman is as strong in popular culture as that of the unarmed Shaolin master.
I think some sort of ability (whether as a class ability or a feat) to expand the list of weapons that can be used in a flurry would be very welcome.
I use this feat :
Monk style (Choose a weapon)
Prerequisites
Weapons Focus (selected weapon), Proficiency with selected weapon
Benefit
You can use this weapons with the monk abilities.
Special
A monk can take this feat as a monk feat (level 1, 2, 6)
I don't have it in front of me.. but didn't the Oriental Adventures book have exactly what you're asking for?
I use this feat :
Monk style (Choose a weapon)
Prerequisites
Weapons Focus (selected weapon), Proficiency with selected weaponBenefit
You can use this weapons with the monk abilities.Special
A monk can take this feat as a monk feat (level 1, 2, 6)
This is like the specific weapon feats from Eberron.
I think it's too onerous.
If you take it for, say, longsword, you're getting +1 damage over a kama (on average, 1d6 -> 1d8) and a 19-20/x2 crit range rather than 20/x2. That's not worth two feats.
If you take it for greatsword, it's better, but I'm not sure I want to encourage monk swordsmen preferring greatswords over longswords... Maybe the Eberron model (specific feats for specific appropriate weapons) is better than just a feat that lets you flurry with anything? In that case, I'm convinced prerequisites should be relaxed.
I don't have it in front of me.. but didn't the Oriental Adventures book have exactly what you're asking for?
Surprisingly enough, no.
But even if it did, OA is not inherently a part of Pathfinder, so I'd like to see it in Pathfinder core.
|
The UA provided variant schools for monk training and Dragon magazine had some awesome additional schools.
I've been asking for PRPG to give us variant builds for classes, but here's one where it really stands out.
If we are stuck in the stereotype of asian monks, there's still a lot out there to show monks trained with many many weapons (or none at all!)
Maybe the easiest way to do this would be at an early level, allow the player to define a set or group of weapons trained specifically with. Those could be "monk" weapons, small blades, large blades, exotic weapons, etc. Then, for the purposes of a monk's strikes, any weapon in the chosen category of trained weapons gain the benefit. (But, unarmed attacks should be considered proficient whichever route you go.)
This would adhere to the notion of regimented training and either monks could continue to advance in fighting styles with their chosen weapons as they increase in levels, or be allowed to take on other weapons groups as well. (Sort of like Ranger Favored Enemy listings.)
Alternatively, is a monk takes Weapon Proficiency as a feat, then all weapons in that group are considered "monk" weapons.
Question - is Paizo going the route of Weapon Group Proficiency, like in UA and similar to the Fighter's groups in Alpha 3? I hope so.
|
I was watching a show where Jet Lee was being interviewed, when he made an interesting admission: He stated that at the Shaolin Temple(?) that he trained when he was young, he was taught to become an expert in 29 different weapons. In fact, many Temples(schools for monks) encouraged developing skills in many weapons.
This idea of a monk never using weapons is cool, but in truth, i dont believe there is a "monk" school out there that doesnt teach multiple weapons proficiencies. If i was the designer, i would make the unarmed monk(different styles, etc) much different than the multiple weapons monk. This way, they both can shine, yet be different enough to make it a tough decision for players to decide which character to play. Yes, monks are getting better, but in truth, there really should be books on weapons monks as well as unarmed monks, including the assassin types, e.g. ninjas, etc.
Just my 2 cents.
Thoth-Amon
|
|
Here's a fix:
At first level, in place of "monk weapons" a monk can choose a Weapon Group (see Fighter weapon groups) that he/she is trained in. Weapons in this group are treated as monastic weapons for the purpose of monk strikes. Unarmed strikes are always considered proficient.
Then, whenever the monk is entitled to a bonus feat, he/she may choose one of the feats listed or an additional Weapon Group that he/she is trained in.
See Unearthed Arcana's Weapon Group Proficiency feat.
This way, people could take monks in whatever direction they choose, but still have restrictions in place. 29 schools in due time.
I already mentioned this in another Monk thread, but I'll repeat it here.
Use the Shou Diciple PrC from Unapprochable East - its a 5 level PrC for FR that allows both light armor useage and the ability to flurry any light weapon.
I built a Swashbuckling Monk that way, reciving AC bonuses from three abilites, and using a rapier with blinding fury.
And if you say FR isn't core - that was BEFORE - FR has officially been rolled into core with the 4e announcments, and ANY rule that appears in an FR book (both of them) will also be considered 'core'. You just have to convince your DM that this ruling is retroactive....
For a quick fix, I would say Paizo should allow the PF Monk class to use a light weapon they have taken proficiency with (through a Feat) with their Monk abilities, and be done with it.
I'd also like to see more monk-specific Feats, to allow all of that Wuxia goodness and make the Monk more interesting then the 'keep them busy for awhile' class. I want to run across treetops, dammit! I want to be able to fight in the air (for a few seconds), run across walls and do back-flips to land behind opponents, etc, etc...
He needs a Neo/Matrix Makeover.
I already mentioned this in another Monk thread, but I'll repeat it here.
Use the Shou Diciple PrC from Unapprochable East - its a 5 level PrC for FR that allows both light armor useage and the ability to flurry any light weapon.
It's also quite a wait to get there.
And if you say FR isn't core - that was BEFORE - FR has officially been rolled into core with the 4e announcments, and ANY rule that appears in an FR book (both of them) will also be considered 'core'. You just have to convince your DM that this ruling is retroactive....
I posted in the Pathfinder forum because I'd like Pathfinder to include options of wuxia swordsmen. If I want to use other books I'll just go to Book of Nine Swords, and if I want to use house rules, I'll just go here.
For a quick fix, I would say Paizo should allow the PF Monk class to use a light weapon they have taken proficiency with (through a Feat) with their Monk abilities, and be done with it.
No longswords, no bastard swords?
These two disagree. :)
I'd also like to see more monk-specific Feats, to allow all of that Wuxia goodness and make the Monk more interesting then the 'keep them busy for awhile' class. I want to run across treetops, dammit! I want to be able to fight in the air (for a few seconds), run across walls and do back-flips to land behind opponents, etc, etc...
He needs a Neo/Matrix Makeover.
Agreed; ideally, the monk needs a more extensive makeover (hello, swordsage!). But I'm not really expecting that from Pathfinder, considering the stated goal of some backwards compatibility with 3.5
I'm very disappointed that the list of monk weapons is as restricted as it has ever been.
After Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon and Hero, I think the archetype of the wuxia swordsman is as strong in popular culture as that of the unarmed Shaolin master.
I think some sort of ability (whether as a class ability or a feat) to expand the list of weapons that can be used in a flurry would be very welcome.
This is a topic that I really couldn't care less about, but that won't stop me from contributing my two cents anyway:
Couldn't you just rename the kama as "martial arts sword" if you wanted to? Or are you saying that the crunch is the problem (i.e. the monk needs proficiency in a one-handed 1d8, 19-20/x2 weapon) rather than the fluff?
The "makeover" for the monk can be accomplished in two ways:
1) Increase skill points from 4 + Int mod to 6 + Int mod. As written, the monk cannot fill any role (caster, expert, warrior); bumping up the skill points at least allows them to act as an expert (and a monk that can climb, detect ambushes, discuss metaphysics/religion, mediate disputes, perform acrobatics, provide first aid or recite history/poetry, and sneak around without sacrificing Str, Dex, Con, or Wis is a pretty classic archetype).
2) Create specific fighting schools/styles (like the sorcerer heritages or wizard specialists; the UA contained several open content Fighting Styles for reference); some of the styles could easily teach different "monk weapons." Historically, specific martial arts styles train students with distinct weapons (or none), depending on the characteristics of the style and the weapon.
Maybe I am just jaded, but I don't really see the characters in Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon as being represented by monks. Monks have a bunch of side abilities that have nothing to do with anything the characters do.
I feel most wuxia characters or heroes of myth are best represented by Book of Nine Swords characters. Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon characters are best represented by Swordsages, with Superior unarmed strike, who just didn't have access to the more flamboyantly supernatural stuff.
well Its an easy enuff home fix for your games. In my homebrew monk weapons change by region and culture. But I allow FoB with monk weapons too.
I feel most wuxia characters or heroes of myth are best represented by Book of Nine Swords characters.
I agree completely, but that observation doesn't help make Pathfinder a better game. :)