| NeoDaitou |
When I was reading the Point-Buy system for the attributes, I thought of another system that could also work really well. I personally like having characters that have penalties to help make their bonuses seem that much better. My proposed system works with the standard fantasy tier.
The character's attributes start at 10 and they buy their attributes at a rate of 1:1 just like the 3P system. The difference is that they can only get an attribute to a maximum of 15 without a penalty. If they wish to use more points to get an attribute higher than that (to a maximum of 18 before racial modifiers), they must have an equal number of attribute points below 10 to offset their character's greater power. This point penalty can not be fixed during character creation.
Example:
I've created a half-elf sorcerer with the ability scores of STR 10/DEX 15/CON 12/INT 13/WIS 10/CHA 15. If I wanted to raise my CHA score higher than 15, I must take an equal number of points below 10. This could result in either my STR becoming 7, my WIS becoming 7, or some blend between the two attributes that totals 3 points (ex. STR 8/WIS 9). I could not take it out of my other scores because they are already over 10 and the penalty would not be as noticeable if you could reduce it during character creation.
This is just an idea I have been working on since I first saw the Point-Buy system for 3.5E. I just wanted to post it as an alternative to the systems that 3P already offers because I felt that 3P's Point-Buy had the same problem: the only penalty to a character increasing their score to 18 was that there was less points to spend on other scores. That did not seem like it was strong enough to warrant the characters getting such a powerful score.
| Kelvin273 |
In the PRPG purchase system as it stands, buying an 18 in a Standard Fantasy campaign forces you to have one 8 or two 9s. Really, there's no reason for a point-buy system to be extremely punitive on high scores, since dice rolling methods can give you an 18 without any penalties. A really stingy system just guarantees that nobody ever uses point buy, at least as written.
In fact, I get the strange feeling that the Pathfinder purchase system will end up like the DMG point buy, where most groups use the higher point values because the standard one is low powered.
Samuel Weiss
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In the PRPG purchase system as it stands, buying an 18 in a Standard Fantasy campaign forces you to have one 8 or two 9s. Really, there's no reason for a point-buy system to be extremely punitive on high scores, since dice rolling methods can give you an 18 without any penalties. A really stingy system just guarantees that nobody ever uses point buy, at least as written.
In fact, I get the strange feeling that the Pathfinder purchase system will end up like the DMG point buy, where most groups use the higher point values because the standard one is low powered.
A dice rolling method can equally give you five scores of 3 to go with that 18. It can also give you six scores of 9 or less, as well as several hundred other combinations that result in all penalties with no bonuses, or just three 10s and three 11s for no bonus whatsoever as the "average" result.
There are two issues with a point buy method:
1. Balance between characters, as a PC with a +20 total of ability score modifiers really is significantly better than one with a +2 total of ability score modifiers.
2. How many times will the DM let your roll for ability scores before getting tired of waiting for you to get something survivable?
As for the arrays presented, there should be a baseline that equals the elite array of 15 14 13 12 10 8.
How far above that should the ranges go?
| Kelvin273 |
You're forgetting about the helpless character rules, which throw out those characters with all those pathetic penalties. Really, I don't think the default array's a great baseline, since it also ignores the fact that rolled characters' stats are pushed up by helpless character mulligans. Unfortunately, I think Paizo might be stuck with it because of backward compatibility.
I have created an alternate point buy system that uses the default array as a baseline without punishing high scores as much.
| magnuskn |
As for the arrays presented, there should be a baseline that equals the elite array of 15 14 13 12 10 8.
How far above that should the ranges go?
I have always felt that the 32 point buy system is pretty fair. Unless you happen to want to play a Monk, that is. Ahem.
Anyway, so far 32 point buy results in balanced characters, which feel suitably heroic, without being too much out of line. Most times, if I let my players roll dice, they end up being far superior to what 32 points can buy, but 32 pts are enough to have an all around suitable character.
Less then 28 points most times make the characters seem pretty gimped. IMO, of course.