Both spells are granted as class abilities but neither are described in Alpha 2.
Someone has probably already mentioned this before, but I thought I would add it anyway.
Lopez
I was under the impression that if it's not in the current alpha document, a given rule or character option is unchanged from its 3.5E form. At least, it hasn't been changed yet.
I'd like to see more of a freeform summoning mechanic: At level X you can summon X number of creatures of CR X or one of CR whatever.
So that we're not all stuck summoning celestial dogs. Here Rover!
i liked the conjuring energy creatures from Arcana Evolved personally, allowed a bit more freedom with what you could summon up and think that might work well in place of the normal summoning lists. just one geek's opinion though.
at the end of the day though it is a pretty mediocre ability. All it is good for is a minor distraction and getting in the way of your own party..
Heh...tell that to my Malconvoker (or high level Pathfinder Conjurer).
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1) Augmented Summoning (+4 Str & Con for summons)
2) Summon Monster 3+ nets you stuff like Huge fiendish centipedes, which have a poisonous bite, magical attacks, and a few resistances (augmented summoning boots their poison save DCs, bites, HP, and Fort saves to boot!). At summon monster level 4+, you can start throwing around some pretty impressive enemies quickly. A few huge centipedes can make very effective "blockers" if not used for offense (seriously, you're talking about 9 squares of "meat-shield" between you and Mr.McSword.
3) Toss on the conjurer's ability to summon an extra creature per summon, or the malconvoker's ability which works the same way (but limited to EVIL creatures), and you can flood the battlefield with living, breathing, awesome.
3.5) Also, with access to things like the malconvoker's abilities which allow you to whip your summons into a frezny (more power, double duration) and you could be summoning up some heavy bruisers to assist your party's warriors.
- "Don't worry about me, I've got Sparky!" *RUOOOAAAARRRE!*
=P
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Honestly, in all the games I play anymore, no one ever summons. I think this is an indictment on the summoning spells. Even the druid doesn't summon. Perhaps a little upgrade in the summoning spells is in order.
Yes I know with the right feat selection it can get somewhat better. Still even with those summoning just doesn't stack up.
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Honestly, in all the games I play anymore, no one ever summons. I think this is an indictment on the summoning spells. Even the druid doesn't summon. Perhaps a little upgrade in the summoning spells is in order.
Yes I know with the right feat selection it can get somewhat better. Still even with those summoning just doesn't stack up.
Doesn't stack up...?
There's a reason the developers of 4E are having so much trouble finding a balanced way to put summoning back in the game. Summoning gives you what very few other things (familiars, animal companions, crafted constructs) do: Additional actions. Actions are the hardest thing to get more of in D&D. Sure for the lower level summons this is mostly basic attacks, but at higher levels you start getting summons with spells of their own! Personally I prefer to stick with Astral Constructs (I hope Pathfinder will see some love for psionics!) because they're simpler to track and it's one versatile power rather than trying to remember the various abilities of lots of summonable creatures, but the potential of summoning, especially with augment summoning and the malconvoker, is great.
at the end of the day though it is a pretty mediocre ability. All it is good for is a minor distraction and getting in the way of your own party..
I think it is based on style of play. I have a conjuration wizard that uses summon monster 75% of the time. And they have saved our butts time and time again.
For instance, attacked under water. Summon dolphins to help out.
Flying creatures with bows, summon eagles/owls to distract them.
Need to hit something with magic weapons, summon something with magic DR since their natural attacks count.
At higher levels, animal growth buffs summon animals quite a bit making them mini-tanks, damage sponges, cover or attackers. Adding more versatile creatures to the summoning table would make it better. Not stronger creatures, creatures with more environmental features or special abilities.
And for those cases where the bad guy has high AC, either aid fighter's attack, aid fighter's AC, flank with rogue or engage in a grapple.
Creativity is the name of the game. As is controlling the battlefield with critters. Summoning done right is not a mediocre ability.
Not everyone plays D&D the same way. And not everyone sees weakness in all the "other" options.
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Picking the right feats can be a good way to boost summoning. BUT feats do not make the conjurer. Knowing when/what to summon is better than having the right feats. Mummies won't attack fire elementals, unicorns can heal the party after/during/before a fight. See what thinking first can do? A conjurer can (to a point) replace the cleric in a time of crisis. Also, a summoned creature can be put into flank spots for fighters and rogue.
...Perhaps a little upgrade in the summoning spells is in order...
If I remember correctly, the duration is pretty much garbage. At low levels especially, it's of limited help unless you burn through spells to keep stuff in play. It'd also be nice if we just had some sort of guideline as to what would be viable with a given level summoning spell, which would allow players to set aside a handful of favorites for any given need. And then they can just look through the MMX to find their favorite allies.
Personally, I've always enjoyed summoning, but in OGL/D&D I've always been rather put off by it. In 2E it wasn't so bad because the duration was much longer (turns not rounds), and so as long as you knew the battle was coming you could make it worth your effort. In 3X it just seems kind of "meh" to me.
grr... I just lost what I spent a 1/2 hour writing here so now I'm just going to write the short version. Over the past year I've played an wizard summoner and a druid summoner from levels 1-11 and 1-12 respectively.
The critical flaw for summoning is that the lower level creatures that can be summoned don't stick around long enough and aren't tough enough to make summoning them worth while. For example summoning rover out of summon monster 1 to have him attack once and then poof away is a waste in comparison to casting sleep, color spray, mount, charm person, etc...
At higher levels the worthlessness is even worse. Would you rather summon rover for 10 rounds with his +2 to hit and 6hp? Or would you rather deal 5D4+5 force damage, inflict 1D6+6 str. penalty to your enemy, deal 5D4 fire to an area of effect,etc...?
The druid's selection is better in that the creature is tougher, but the value lost at higher levels remains. For the druid casting summon nature's ally is akin to ritual suicide in that the casting time is the full round action. For that full round the druid has a bullseye on them while every enemy tries to hit the druid to disrupt the spell.
Based on my experience make the following changes and summoners will largely balance out.
1) Have the duration be a fixed 1 minute
2) Fix the number of critters that show up with 2 at spell level, 4 at 1 higher spell level, and 6 show up from there on up.
3) Place a fixed number on the number of creatures a caster can control such as # of creatures = to 1/2 their level, otherwise the buff spell summoning will get out of hand.
4) Significantly improve the list of creatures to chose from. in making the list the creature still need to be of value at high levels as it is at low levels.
By the end of 3.5 there if the lists of summon natures ally, summon undead and summon monster had been merged then the last bullet would have largely been fulfilled. Another option would be to just have the player chose a creature whose HD matched that spell summoning level.
My experience with the summoning spells is they are quite a time-sink. I had a summoner druid in my 3.5 party, who was summoning dire badgers from 3rd to 7th level. With a full attack action, they attacked three times in a round, but only hit on a high roll, sometimes only on a 20. After 2 or 3 combat rounds, the druid had some 9-20 additional attacks AND his own action.
Summoning is a powerful tool, but you can waste a lot of game time with it and even more, when the summoner doesn't have his creature prepared and has to count it's stats on the fly. (That's why I have the can-summon-only-what-you-have-prepared house rule.)