When I saw Alpha 1, the only thing I could think about was that they'd take away the Wish SLA for Wizards. It needed to be taken away, but I didn't want it to be taken away.
When Alpha 2 came out I was utterly stunned to see it still sitting there on their SLA list. At least- until I read what they did to the spell.
Please, Please change Wish back to how it was before. Remove it as a wizard SLA. With the magic-item change to make folks only have 2 stat items, people NEED a way to boost their stats, especially later in game. Please find some other effective cost for Wish (since you have removed all XP costs from spells)- but please fix Wish in the process.
The Wish spell itself has never been broken.
Just my .02.
-S
Please, Please change Wish back to how it was before. Remove it as a wizard SLA. With the magic-item change to make folks only have 2 stat items, people NEED a way to boost their stats, especially later in game.
Tomes of [Increase Stat] should still work (assuming that Pathfinder doesn't eliminate those, too).
Please, Please change Wish back to how it was before. Remove it as a wizard SLA. With the magic-item change to make folks only have 2 stat items, people NEED a way to boost their stats, especially later in game.Tomes of [Increase Stat] should still work (assuming that Pathfinder doesn't eliminate those, too).
Since they're based on Wish, they'll probably have the same cost.
I like the change. Races are more powerful now, and characters get a couple of extra feats (not to mention stronger classes). Just add a better stat generation system (more point buy or more dice, whatever), and you have about the old power level - with the difference that you're as powerful as you are because of your own abilities, not the stuff you wear.
Have no problem myself with the Wish spell getting kneecapped. Never much cared for it being a spell in the first place. Would have been happier to see it limited to beings such ad Djinn, Deities, Arch-dukes of Hell and Princes of the Abyss. Powering it down suits me fine especially if it remains on the Universal list of abilities.
-Weylin Stormcrowe
Given that Wish still has the limitation of increasing stats only by casting them in quick succession, and the XP limitation is now a gp limitation, I do not find it's ability to increase stats as overpowered for a 9th level spell.
I'd say taht the GP instead of XP limitation makes it worse than before. Money's not much of a hindrance to high-level characters, but XP still is.
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Given that Wish still has the limitation of increasing stats only by casting them in quick succession, and the XP limitation is now a gp limitation, I do not find it's ability to increase stats as overpowered for a 9th level spell.I'd say that the GP instead of XP limitation makes it worse than before. Money's not much of a hindrance to high-level characters, but XP still is.
I'd disagree. At 17th level, when you can cast Wish, the associated XP cost is a drop in the bucket. If a character had so much gold lying around, they'd buy a Tome of Physical Prowess, or the like. By planning 2-3 wishes in quick succession, you are spending a LOT of money, which is more of a direct impact to the character than XP, because they can't spend that money on equipment now ...
An XP cost takes them from one point at 17th level to a lower point at 17th level, which is no impact at all. And if the caster's buddies get to 18th level, the caster gets more XP per encounter until he catches up. XP is the far more renewable resource, I think.
Given that Wish still has the limitation of increasing stats only by casting them in quick succession, and the XP limitation is now a gp limitation, I do not find it's ability to increase stats as overpowered for a 9th level spell.I'd say taht the GP instead of XP limitation makes it worse than before. Money's not much of a hindrance to high-level characters, but XP still is.
Would say the cost GP and XP cost are close to each other, since at those levels both are easy to come by in large amounts. The deterent of GP backed Wish is that 25,000 GP diamonds (not it is 25,000 gp diamon, not 25,000gp worth of diamonds) are not an easy thing to come by at any level in any world. The value is almost 10,000 over the listed limited for Korvosa. If a game master makes such things readily available, I'd personally consider backing out of that game.
-Weylin Stormcrowe
The whole point of 3e was that items were readily available. A 25k gp mundane item should be trivial to find in a world where 200k gp magic items can potentially be purchased.
Theoretically, yes. If you follow the GP limit in settlements from the DMG, no. Each settlement has a GP limit that is supposed to be the highest cost of an item commonly available in that settlement. Anything else would take some time hunting it down or require comissioning the item. While there are magical items with a cost of 200,000 gp these would logically be very very hard to find and probably be comission items, since it is unlikely any crafter keeps such items around even in worlds that have plentiful magic shops.
I was however in error about Korvosa's gp limit. It is 40,000 gp. However items close to that limit or even half that limit are likely not numerous or easy to locate.
Control of the setting means the DM controls how easy, quickly and regularly a character can acquire items they need...magical and mundane. Just because the characters can afford the item does not mean the DM has to just hand it over to them anytime they say they are spending the gold for it.
-Weylin Stormcrowe
d20 Modern had an interesting series of arguments similar to this.
Basically, the argument ran "1gp is approximately equivalent to US$20". So a 25,000gp diamond (one single diamond, not 25,000gp worth of diamonds) would be a US$500,000 diamond.
Just doing a quick search on a 'local' Diamond retailing shop, searching for an approximate value of $500,000 (AUS$, not US$, but close enough these days), I found only three diamonds retailing between $400k and $600k (including GST, I'm not sure if the PHB includes this).
Now, Melbourne (800km away) is a city of approximately 3.8 million people. By ELH standards, that would make it bigger than a Planar Metropolis (100,000 'people'), with a gp limit of (let's say, double the Planar Metropolis limit of 600k) 1.2 million gp.
Preface: According to the 'rules as written' (you can buy anything up to the gp value without having to even roleplay anything) If I have to scrape the barrel to find a 25,000 gp diamond, why can't I buy (for example) a fleet of ten military jets, worth about $2.4 million each?
a) because it would be seen as extremely worrying by my government that I needed so much 'protection'.
b) you wouldn't believe the parking tickets you get around here.
c) dropping that much in one go is incredibly odd. If I started dropping half a million on a single diamond every time my buddies and I went (for example) white-water rafting, people would think I was a little bizarre. Possibly not so much if it was spent on something that directly stopped me dying, rather than stopped me dying for good.
I'd disagree. At 17th level, when you can cast Wish, the associated XP cost is a drop in the bucket. If a character had so much gold lying around, they'd buy a Tome of Physical Prowess, or the like. By planning 2-3 wishes in quick succession, you are spending a LOT of money, which is more of a direct impact to the character than XP, because they can't spend that money on equipment now ...An XP cost takes them from one point at 17th level to a lower point at 17th level, which is no impact at all. And if the caster's buddies get to 18th level, the caster gets more XP per encounter until he catches up. XP is the far more renewable resource, I think.
Wish goes for 5000 XP. You'd have to defeat a whole CR 17 enemy for that. Alone. (Well, actually, it would net you 5100 XP).
If you off that thing, you'll get an average 36000gp worth of treasure. That is, if the thing gives standard treasure. Many have more*. That's enough to get the scroll of wish and then some.
*Srd CR 17 monsters:
Aboleth Mage: Double Standard (72000gp on average)
Various Dragons: Triple Standard (108000gp on average)
Marilith: Standard, but double goods, and 1d4 magic weapons. (The goods are worth about 10.000 on average; I'd say the weapons, being 2.5 +3 - which is what a 50 in medium magic weapons will net you - are about 40000. So all in all about 90000)
Formian Queen: Double Standard (72000)
Frost Giant Jarl: Standard.
I'd say that all in all, it's easier getting the money. It also makes more sense, and it is the better choice, psychologically (you don't get to feel inferiour than being lower-level than your mates.)
Please, Please change Wish back to how it was before. Remove it as a wizard SLA. With the magic-item change to make folks only have 2 stat items, people NEED a way to boost their stats, especially later in game. Please find some other effective cost for Wish (since you have removed all XP costs from spells)- but please fix Wish in the process.
The Wish spell itself has never been broken.
Just my .02.
-S
I have to agree with you Selgusrd. It doesnt need to be on the wizard SLA .. and that aspect of it needs to be returned to 3.5 standards. I cannot see myself or any of the others I have talked about it with ever using wish to improve ability scores as it is written in alpha 2. That was by far one of the best things about wish from 3.5. Put it back!