Stunned = Auto Combat Maneuver Success

[Majuba]

Pathfinder Alpha 2.0 wrote:

Page 61, Performing a Combat Maneuver:

If your target is immobilized, stunned, unconscious, or otherwise incapacitated, your maneuver automatically succeeds.

I just noticed this in the Combat section, and was considering the implications. Obviously most of these conditions make sense for auto-success, but stunned seems a bit powerful. Too powerful I'm not sure.

At first level a monk could flurry with Stunning Fist, and, if the attack and the stun was successful, automatically disarm or trip the opponent with the second attack. He could also automatically Sunder (and deal damage to an item, like a shield). An ally could automatically grapple, bull rush, overrun, etc.

This seems pretty strong, but appeals to me, as a nice increase in combat options. Also works with things like Holy Word and Greater Shout that stun people (and even some Critical Hit/Miss Deck cards).

Thoughts?

[Pneumonica]

Majuba wrote:

Pathfinder Alpha 2.0 wrote:

Page 61, Performing a Combat Maneuver:

If your target is immobilized, stunned, unconscious, or otherwise incapacitated, your maneuver automatically succeeds.

I just noticed this in the Combat section, and was considering the implications. Obviously most of these conditions make sense for auto-success, but stunned seems a bit powerful. Too powerful I'm not sure.

At first level a monk could flurry with Stunning Fist, and, if the attack and the stun was successful, automatically disarm or trip the opponent with the second attack. He could also automatically Sunder (and deal damage to an item, like a shield). An ally could automatically grapple, bull rush, overrun, etc.

This seems pretty strong, but appeals to me, as a nice increase in combat options. Also works with things like Holy Word and Greater Shout that stun people (and even some Critical Hit/Miss Deck cards).

Really, this phenomenon is why the Mind Flayer always used to be the death machine of D&D. It shoots stun out of its forehead and then worms death into your head. (Recently the Druid/Shapechanger in our party used a stunning spell and a flayer form to kill some bad guys, leading to the sadly-all-too-common ruling that tasting is fine, but eating is evil.)

I'm actually approving of this, but I do think this makes me wonder about the Monk - given that he's the unarmed combat maneuver specialist, his stunning fist is gonna be doom on five fingers.

[All DMs are evil]

Majuba wrote:

At first level a monk could flurry with Stunning Fist, and, if the attack and the stun was successful, automatically disarm or trip the opponent with the second attack. He could also automatically Sunder (and deal damage to an item, like a shield). An ally could automatically grapple, bull rush, overrun, etc.

Stunned

A stunned creature drops everything held, can’t take actions, takes a -2 penalty to AC, and loses his Dexterity bonus to AC (if any).

I do agree that auto success on the other actions listed does seems a bit too powerful, maybe the stunned condition needs to include a bit about a minus on Combat manoeuvres instead of auto success. With out a monk in the party we have no way to play test this, when monks are released this week this may get some more play time.