Why exactly can't these function like temporary HP?
Is there some kind of intermingling issue that causes this to be a big problem?
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Why exactly can't these function like temporary HP?
Is there some kind of intermingling issue that causes this to be a big problem?
I think it's because they result in an actual CON bump, which also affects Fort. If it were just boost to HP, they would be temporary, but anytime an ability changes, it's as if one were wearing a permanent magic item.
Ok.
I'm just wondering if they can make them be lost FIRST.
This is one of those silly book-keeping things that I though should have been done without. I don't see how it's overpowering if they are lost first. It has little effect on the battle typically and has a much greater effect on the healing required on the barbarian afterwards.
Barbs with high HP can really be a burden to the healing abilities of a party, the bookkeeping is annoying on this, and the ability isn't overpowering....so I figured why not change it?
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I agree. There isn't anything saying you can't replace the CON bonus with temporary hit points = to barbarian level x 2, or barbarian level x4, and a +2 bonus to Fortitude saves.
Effectively it would work the same, but the 'temporary hit points' would be lost first, instead of last. Then a barbarian doesn't have to worry about keeling over every time he stops raging.
Exactly.
And it's easier to keep track of for that matter, rather than come up with a percentage drop after each rage.
This rarely takes play during combat especially at higher levels, and on the rare occasions it would, it just makes the Barbarian think twice about using his rage ability...it will probably make him think twice about using rage-points up now, and is most certainly likely not to actually effect the battle because the barbarian will just save those points for raging if his HP is down to half or so.
If the Barbarian loses it before the points are used up, then he's at maxium and fatigued unless he's overcome that...he's still taking an HP hit until he does, even if he's at maximum.
This would make the book-keeping easier, there would be less of a double-tax on raging that occurs up until 17th level, the benefits are good but not unbalancing by any means, and it takes care of some of the massive healing needed Post-battle on the Barbarians massive HP depot.
how about the temporary hitpoints cannot be refreshed by the rage for 1 hour after initial use?... or 10 minutes...something like that.
Also, the potions would get a bit pricey wouldn't they? You just used up 2 rounds of your rage ability, a potion, and three rounds to gain 20 HP back. Why not just get one of false life and cut the middle man out? :P
Exactly.
And it's easier to keep track of for that matter, rather than come up with a percentage drop after each rage.
This rarely takes play during combat especially at higher levels, and on the rare occasions it would, it just makes the Barbarian think twice about using his rage ability...it will probably make him think twice about using rage-points up now, and is most certainly likely not to actually effect the battle because the barbarian will just save those points for raging if his HP is down to half or so.
If the Barbarian loses it before the points are used up, then he's at maxium and fatigued unless he's overcome that...he's still taking an HP hit until he does, even if he's at maximum.
This would make the book-keeping easier, there would be less of a double-tax on raging that occurs up until 17th level, the benefits are good but not unbalancing by any means, and it takes care of some of the massive healing needed Post-battle on the Barbarians massive HP depot.
Agreed. All my GMing friends and I have been using this as a house rule for years. It is completely counterintuitive that a high level barbarian with low hit points at the end of a major battle dies, while a low level one lives through the ordeal.
Like Maezer said, look at the Renewed Vigor rage ability.
Treating rage bonus HPs as temporary HPs pretty much reduces the benefit of Renewed Vigor to WORSE than nothing (since you're wasting rage points to use the ability, as well as staying in rage instead of dropping out and back again to gain temporary HPs.) Treating them as temporary HPs which can be renewed everytime the Barbarian enters Rage, is basically giving the Barbarian Damage Resistance X (scaling with level!!!) EVERY round they enter Rage, which is absurdly exploitable. Sure you can add MORE rules so to control it's exploitability, but what's the need in the first place?
I don't see what's 'counter-intuitive' about the Rage HPs vanishing once Rage is left. It makes much more sense to me to view the Rage HPs as akin to how the Die-Hard feat works, i.e. the Barbarian can ignore wounds that might drop a regular warrior, but EVENTUALLY they will catch up to the Barbarian. Otherwise, you're basically giving the Barbarian 'magical' self-healing.
Which sounds more "Raging Barbarian" like???
So at high levels, sure, the Barbarian will stick around taking a ton of damage while staying in the fight, but then they'll drop, needing some healing/ Raising from the party healer, but at high levels, that shouldn't be a problem... If high HP characters are fighting until low (or zero) HPs, they're just going to need a lot of healing to recover 100%, no way around it. At low levels, it really just means the Barbarian might want to think twice before using ALL their Rage Points up (on expensive abilities, etc) if they're taking alot of damage and aren't sure they can get healing right away...
Game-wise, I think the best way to handle the bonus HPs is DON'T add them to your total, keep them separate, and once your character drops to 0 hp, he WILL drop when he leaves Rage, but any further damage is taken away from his Rage points. There STILL is a lasting benefit from the bonus HPs because since "TOTAL DAMAGE TAKEN" is never accounted for separately from Hit Points, damage *IS* ABSORBED BY THE BONUS RAGE HPs. In MOST cases where the Barbarian drops after Rage, his HPs will still be at 0 (or better than -10) where he has ample chance to stabilize (or if he has Die-Hard feat, he can even drop a potion his self), instead of -27 (or something) HPs (DEAD MEAT) if the bonus Rage HPs had not 'taken' the damage.
I think Paizo SHOULD emphasize that the Rage HPs should be accounted for separately than the regular HP pool, because if you merge them into one larger pool, it can get confusing when you leave Rage.
For bookkeeping, instead of adding the bonus HPs directly to the HP total, we keep them as a separate number that doesn't get hit until all regular HPs were gone. (Obviously, regular HPs and bonus HPs were added together for checks against things like Power Word Kill.) So the rage HPs are consciously thought of as "Okay, after this point I'm actually already dying, the rage is just keeping me from noticing. Hope I can get healed before I stop cheating death."
Maybe we could just replace the Rage bonus to CON and extra HPs with a Bonus to Fort saves and some kind of Fast Healing? This does away with the whole extra HP math. I mean it is odd that the CON bonus increases, but the number of extra HP dont.
So fast healing 1 at 1st level, then fast healing 2 at 11th and then fast healing 4 at 20th?
I dunno, I am sure someone could do the math and tell me how it doesn't equal out.