Just curious, will there be any rules or suggestions for running a Pathfinder RPG game in a setting with few (perhaps even NO) magical items? One of my biggest gripes with 3e/3.5e is the fact that it is extremely difficult to have a game, especially at mid/high levels, where the characters aren't decked out like Christmas trees. Without all magical loot, just about every challenge needs re-balancing.
So, what if I wanted to run a game where magical items tended to be rare and unique, except perhaps for scrolls and potions?
I wil definitely third this idea. Since CR is based in part on what magical items a party of a given level is expected to have this needs work. Especially in the case of Low Magic or Rare (to the point of being almost non-existent) Magic. I feel that work definitely belongs in the core books, namely a Pathfinder Monster Manual.
-Weylin Stormcrowe
I think perhaps the simplest way to accomplish such a goal is by alternative wealth by level charts, similar to the alternative experience charts already included. A couple of paragraphs on how to adjust things for high-/low-wealth campaigns on top of that ought to be sufficient.
I think perhaps the simplest way to accomplish such a goal is by alternative wealth by level charts, similar to the alternative experience charts already included. A couple of paragraphs on how to adjust things for high-/low-wealth campaigns on top of that ought to be sufficient.
Chris, but a change in availability of magic would drastically alter how much of a challenge some creatures present. DR/Magic-Holy-Unholy becomes an more difficult ability to counter in low/rare magic. So the CR would have to be altered. A Balor in Hyboria is a much more difficult opponent than in Eberron.
-Weylin Stormcrowe
I agree, please include such a system, it is one of my continual gripes about D&D that one must be rolling in dough to be even semi-competant against some monsters. It's part of the reason I love the Iron Heroes system.
As someone who started with Basic and "graduated" to AD&D, I'm also much more comfortable with fewer magic items. I also really like the idea that characters can squander wealth on parties, sumptuous villas (that the villain might burn down to start the next adventure), etc. -- things that make for great storytelling and roleplaying, but which are totally impossible in 3.5 unless the character wishes to be crippled to the point of uselessness.
I would like to add my vote to this idea as well. Even if you only put a page or two in the PFRPG or post a PDF on the site, some general guidelines or principles on how to adjust encounters and CRs for low or no magic campaigns would be great.
Ive played in Low Magic worlds alot (Ravenloft to be exsact) out DM did a fine job adjusting encounters, but maybe a little exerp would help some people I just dont really see a need for it I think Space will be at a premium in this book
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Iron Heroes is a great low magic system that some of you may want to look into because a lot of its ideas can be imported into a 3.5 game. Granted, it buffs the characters themselves up some so that they can handle equal threats without any magical aid.
Its a very fun system however, especially if you want to play in the kind of world where you -might- have found a +1 sword by the mid to upper levels, but even so its probably not your primary weapon because its magic and bad things can happen when magic is involved, so you're just going to use it when you really need it.
Also, Kirth, I've seen you mention that idea of wanting your characters to be able to throw parties and come up with houses and all sorts of other expenditures that aren't directly useful. In the Iron Heroes Players Guide, they have a section of wealth feats that you might find kind of interesting. Basically, the idea is that whenever the characters spend money on something that has no mechanical benefit to them, they start to accumulate wealth points which they can then spend on wealth feats. These run a pretty wide range, but generally confer social benefits rather then combat ones(We need an audience with the king? No worries, his adviser attended my last party, I can get us in.).
-Tarlane
Edit: As a side note, I'm all for low magic worlds myself and thats often my preference, but I think that would be more in line with source book material. Its a lot of ground to cover and would take up a great deal of room in a core book.
Also, Kirth, I've seen you mention that idea of wanting your characters to be able to throw parties and come up with houses and all sorts of other expenditures that aren't directly useful. In the Iron Heroes Players Guide, they have a section of wealth feats that you might find kind of interesting. Basically, the idea is that whenever the characters spend money on something that has no mechanical benefit to them, they start to accumulate wealth points which they can then spend on wealth feats. These run a pretty wide range, but generally confer social benefits rather then combat ones(We need an audience with the king? No worries, his adviser attended my last party, I can get us in.).
Dude, that sounds awesome. I've GOT to get a copy of this book!
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I've got a feeling this is something that will need to be regualted by individual DMs. Many players enjoy magical toys and getting new interesting items. The key of course, is interesting. +2 rings nad claoks of protection are just dull. Collecting items with flair has been a staple sinc ethe early days and sometimes is fun.
I'm not doubting the way the core 3.5 rules currently are, there's a bit much. In my games for example I allow a special dodge bonus by class when raising lecvels and have done away with any magic items that does noting but adds a bonus to Armor Class. It's worked great.
But, like I said, I think that's a balance each group needs to decide for themselves.
-DM Jeff
The number of magical items founds is of course regulated by the DM, however, since the CR rules assume that the characters have the amount of wealth that they're supposed to have, and it also seems to assume that all that wealth is spent on magical items that directly improve their combat statistics and important stats, even using the standard 3.5e wealth/magic, there isn't much room for 'flare'. You can spend that 4,000 gold on this nifty little magical item which has some cool powers... Or you can spend it on that Headband of Intellect +2 (or whatever), which while not so cool, is probably more useful.
Another problem I see which makes it very difficult for DMs to make low-magic-item campaigns is that they are significantly more important to non-spellcasting classes than they are to clerics/druids/wizards/etc. Sure, you can ban those classes (akin to Iron Heroes, which has one modified spellcasting class which most people seem to think is still overpowered), but what if you want a world where crafting magical items is rare/nonexistant, but there are still mighty archmages (and lowly apprentices) and priests blessed by their deities?
I'm looking for something more akin to earlier editions of the game (though, hopefully, more balanced): A party which includes both mundanes and spellcasters, perhaps with some magical items, but not huge numbers of them... Maybe 2-3 per-character at 10th level.