Streamlining class powers

[Eric Desbiens]

Right now, there are 4 systems for class to gain features:

1.Feat base (Fighter/Rogue)
2.Slot base (Spells)
3.Powers per day (Most Paladin/Bard ability)
4.Point Pool (Barbarian Rage)

If each class used only one system, that would not be so bad, but most classes use 2-3 of those systems. A paladin get smite and remove disease as Powers per day, Get divine spells as Slot base casting, and some Feat style power like auras and divine grace. All those class features should use the same mechanics. And then why have so many systems when all classes could used only one system.

In Pathfinder alpha 2, Barbarian points pool are being tested and could replace Powers per day. This system could be used as the only system for class features. The problem with this new system is exactly that: it's new! Even if the system seem to works pretty well from playtest report, it does not fit well with the original design of 3.5. There is already a power system built-in 3.5 that have prove it's worth on many versions of the game: Slot base powers.

All classes ability should follow the same slot system used by spells. Mixed with Pathfinder innovations, like at will 0 level spell, this may give a clean system that could be more easily balanced. For example, each class power have a level so it can be prepared in the good slot level. This allow to compare all 1st level power and see if they are of the same strength whether they are a fighter combat ability, arcane spells or supernatural abilities.

This document present how some classes (Fighter, Rogue, Barbarian and Paladin) might works under such a system. The document also contains a section on how I have constructed the classes to try to keep them balanced.

Streamlining class power .pdf document

I think there is a lot of potential in this idea and seem quite compatible with current 3.5 rules. I hope that the pathfinder team will find some interesting inspiration in it.

[DracoDruid]

And I think it's what 4th Edition is gonna do (not sure if they use the slot system though).

While I am none of the guys who complains about NOT to use 4th Ed. ideas, I can already hear them blat (just looked the word up).

I think streamlining is a good idea. But it must be done carefully. I havn't got the change to test the point pool variant to see how it "feels" ingame, so I am not sure about this specific way, but it could be the easiest way to manage every aspect (from rage to sorcery) under one rule.

[Rhishisikk]

It certainly harmonizes with spell points. As pointed out in another thread, there are many ways of keeping track of point pools.

Also, I know Neko is tired of posting in the forums, but he likes the 'power tap' system represented in Book of Nine Swords. Basically, you have a number of cards representing abilities, which are 'tapped' similar to MTG cards when used. Then there's a recharge mechanic, which means that you alter between using your special abilities and getting them ready to use again.

[Eric Desbiens]

Yes, 4th edition use a solution like that, but there are many things I don't like such as having the same number of power whatever class you have. For me, a wizard will always have more powers and stronger powers than a fighter. Also I don't think pathfinder need to go to an encounter model like 4th edition.

For points pool, I don't see why pathfinder need reinvent the wheel and create another system while there is one already available that already fit the game. And converting spells to use spell point would be too much of a change to preserve backward compatibility.

The Book of Nine Swords maneuvers is an encounter model and I think it is better to keep the core with a daily resources management that fit 3.5 original design.

Here's how I think things could be done:

3 power progressions
Low: Level 0 to 3rd : Barbarian, Fighter, Monk, Rogue
Medium: Level 0 to 6th : Bard, Paladin, Ranger
High: Level 0 to 9: Cleric, Druid, Sorcerer, Wizard

Most class features are converted to power with a certain level. For example, Rage, Cleave and Sneak attack would be 1st level power.

Some powers are enhanced for certain class. A fighter using the cleave power receive the benefit of a Great cleave, a Rogue using sneak deals more damage and can use it in more conditions than other classes and Barbarian rage get stronger as a barbarian gains level while other classes get only the basic bonuses.

Also a certain numbers of 1st level power get promoted to 0 level power for certain class, making them usable at will like any 0 level spell. A rogue Sneak attack would be level 0 while for a fighter choosing this power would only be able to use it a couple time per day, and not before attaining 4th level when having access to 1st level power.