Minnesota Vikings?
Paizo's 4th edition line should be Pathfinder, :P
Now that we know the GSL applies on a product-line by product-line basis rather than by company,
With all do respect, no we don't know this. This is what Wizards is saying right now. They've changed their mind enough times about stuff they've announced that I don't believe a word they say anymore. I only believe their actions. No one STILL has seen the license (whatever its name will finally be, if there will be one) and as far as we know, they can keep changing it after its first release and 3rd party companies will have to change to comply. At this point I believe June 6th (aka one month from today) will come and go and there will still be no license.
Here's my take on what Paizo should consider for 4E, when they are ready.
REQUIREMENTS:
- Don't devalue the Pathfinder brand (i.e. if Paizo creates a whole new setting right now, we 4E folks might stop buying Golarion products)
- Bring new people to Paizo and help them develop interest in other Paizo products
IDEA:
- Publish a line of 4E adventures in a "Points-of-Light" setting (only defining the immediate point of light needed for a given adventure, no world maps etc.)
- Use Golarion as the setting, but NOT modern Golarion - set these adventures in the Age of Anguish, the time when the darkness was just beginning to abate after the destruction caused by the Starstone falling to Golarion.
- Thassilonian ruins, and the oldest of the gods, can make appearances, but not much will be known about history etc. since people are only just beginning to regroup, and there are no large human (or demi-human) civilizations.
- Provide just enough hints and tie-ins that readers can get interested in the other line of products, but keep the two lines completely separate; don't worry about it if developing the church of Desna for 4E needs different stuff than it does for 3.5, for instance.
- Create a few contradictions where needed; Eladrin are elves that hid in the Feywild (assuming Feywild is open-GSL) as opposed to normal elves who stayed in the forests, Dragonborn came through the gates when the majority of elves departed, tieflings come from some area of devastation, stuff like that. If these elements don't exist "later" in the PRPG version for the Pathfinder line, don't worry about it.
NOTE: Using the same world in this fashion will hopefully count as a completely different product line, just as a product line for d20 Modern would be completely separate than one for heroic roleplay in Ancient Greece. The only place where there might be an issue is the same gods being statted up for both "settings." But really, evaluating whether or not this concept is legal by the GSL has to wait until the GSL is released...
Ok for Vikings.
But Celts too.
I could get on board for that, too.
I'm not inflexible.
;)
But are they Minnesota Vikings?
- Publish a line of 4E adventures in a "Points-of-Light" setting (only defining the immediate point of light needed for a given adventure, no world maps etc.)
Isn't that what they have been pretty much doing for the Pathfinder Modules so far or is it something different?
- Create a few contradictions where needed; Eladrin are elves that hid in the Feywild (assuming Feywild is open-GSL) as opposed to normal elves who stayed in the forests, Dragonborn came through the gates when the majority of elves departed, tieflings come from some area of devastation, stuff like that. If these elements don't exist "later" in the PRPG version for the Pathfinder line, don't worry about it.
I'm not sure if you meant it this way, but I am against having it in Golarion just because it is in the 4E PHB, MM, or DMG. In this case the Dragonborn seem to be there just because they are in the PHB and I feel it makes Golarion look more like any other 4E setting. I would also say the same thing about the Feywild as well.
I feel the same way about other aspects like succubi, if on Golarion I would be very much against making them devils just because they are in the 4E MM.
Overall I'm not sure how I feel about the 4E setting being ancient Golarion. It might work and I think like how it interconnects the two settings, but I'm not sure if it would be too much or too little or whatever. I think I'm going to think about this for a good long time before figuring out how I feel about this.
I'm guessing that even if the "product line" restriction doesn't prohibit Golarion-based Paizo 4e, which it might, and Paizo locates the staff resources to allocate to a 4e line, they might want to create something totally different. I would think that to avoid all sorts of confusion, the Necromancer conversions could likely be the only 4e Golarion.
Which is why the only sensible answer is Vikings, with perhaps a few Celts.
EDIT: And possibly Minnesotans.
Creative Director
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If we do a 4th edition line... it'll be set outside of Golarion both in time and in space. Golarion, past, present, and future, is 3.5 and then changes to 3.5/Pathfinder RPG. We built this world with the baseline assumptions, both flavor and rules-wise, with 3.5, and we're not interested in rebuilding it to fit 4th.
Whatever we do with 4th edition will be set elsewhere.
Paizo 4th Edition - in the 4th dimension! O.o
Yes. We can barely do the stuff we're doing for 3.5/PRPG. James and I are at the office today just so we can keep treading water.
Just sounds like you need to hire more people :) I volunteer (can't blame a guy for trying)
Personally I get tired of the bland "this one is like the next" campaign setting. Greyhawk and Forgotten Realms are different, but both mostly generic.
Eberron, though not a favorite of mine, at least tried to be a bit different. So did Dragonlance in some ways.
I still feel that the settings I've enjoyed the most to date are Dark Sun and Ravenloft. They challenge the players in different ways, both with strategy and roleplaying because the setting is unique and powerful in itself.
So I'd like to see a campaign setting by Paizo or Necromancer Games that uses such a setting so as to outstrip all those generic settings out there that WOTC is so fond of now.
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So I'd like to see a campaign setting by Paizo or Necromancer Games that uses such a setting so as to outstrip all those generic settings out there that WOTC is so fond of now.
You know, not a bad idea. If you're going to do 4E, dive head first in the kool-aid. Do something where the new crap is fully integrated and a part of daily living. The generic setting WotC uses still has Human's as the dominant race, and Dragonborn and Tieflings as fallen empires. Switch that around somehow, imagine the Dragonborn and Tiefling empires are flurishing and in control, do some interesting stuff, lots of opportunities for artwork there... This would certainly help differentiate it from Golarian.
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So I'd like to see a campaign setting by Paizo or Necromancer Games that uses such a setting so as to outstrip all those generic settings out there that WOTC is so fond of now.
You know, not a bad idea. If you're going to do 4E, dive head first in the kool-aid. Do something where the new crap is fully integrated and a part of daily living. The generic setting WotC uses still has Human's as the dominant race, and Dragonborn and Tieflings as fallen empires. Switch that around somehow, imagine the Dragonborn and Tiefling empires are flurishing and in control, do some interesting stuff, lots of opportunities for artwork there... This would certainly help differentiate it from Golarian.
The way I see it, Golarion is a dark, almost horror-esque fantasy world in desperate need of heroes. If Paizo wanted to create a brand new 4E campaign, its authors should go the opposite way.
What do I mean? They should look at manga/anime/video games for inspiration. I mean, many of the crunch elements already fit such a setting: furious fighting with opponents knocking each other all over the place; little rest between battle; quick surges of strength; reliance on one's powers, not magic items; exotic races; small towns all alone in the night (oops. That Babylonian Fiver :) ).
We're not talking Exalted, here. Ack! Horrible, horrible thought. More like Slayers.
Huh. Now that I think about it, maybe 4E is the game for me!
Finns.
Ever read the Kalevala? The ancient Finns of myth really kicked ... well, stuff.
Oh ... and Smurf. Because I've never tried this before!!
I think the Paizo 4E brand should be called "4E Basic Dungeons & Dragons"
Maybe it could come in a red box...
Greyhawk.
Greyhawk. :)
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Greyhawk.
Yah, actually, I see problems with that. First of all is the whole "owned by another company" thang. But secondly (and maybe more important actually) is that it's too durn close to Pathfinder look/feel and they've made a big investement there.
On the other hand.... Maybe... Grey-Smurf!
Jokey Smurf Box: 1d4 Vs Reflex, Subject is granted +2 to stealth checks due to blackened face.
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Like a scary homeless man who's the only one who knows the Space Vampires are coming?Oh, that's easy. Just make your modules louder and have them gesticulate a lot.From what I've seen, 4th edition is a VERY different game, and simultaneously publishing 3rd edition stuff at the same time would be madness in the same way that trying to learn French and Spanish at the same time would be. They share several words and rules, sure, but the sentences and pronunciation and punctuation are VERY different.
I thought Paizo were fighting those off with drow in spaceships? :)
Edit:
I would have naturally preferred to have seen a thread with the heading: 'What should Wizards of the Coast's PFRPG Brand/line be?'
-Space Vampires?!?!?!?
18D
Having thought about this, a boxed gift set version of the game for family use. Principally for parents to play wth their children, but for uncles/aunts to use with their nephews/nieces or even for elder siblings to use with their younger ones. You need a quality product to bring people into the game, and Paizo have until now had a reputation for quality.
However I am not optimistic that Hasbro would let such a project go out of house.
If I am remembering correctly, I think the 4e starter kit from Wizards will be appearing in time for Christmas.
And since it's been a while and everybody may have forgotten, I'm in favor of Vikings.
I suspect the spin on it may be 'it's for children to play with one another' and not a cross-generational family product.
Not sure, but it might be family-oriented. They are trying hard to add both kids and people who used to play but haven't in years, so there may be some hope.
*Sigh* It looks as if Hasbro would not let it out of house then.
IMO, not in a million years. ;)
I would actually love to see some sort of Paizo family-oriented product though, so I am with you on that one. I love what Paizo makes, but I don't feel comfortable using it for playing with my girlfriend's nephews. Way too mature for those two to handle right now, I think.
Greyhawk. :)
Greyhawk, in my humble opinion, is the most bland setting I know of. We respect it because it came first from Gygax himself, but it, like the core areas of Forgotten Realms is a generic "D&D template" setting.
It has nothing to catch my attention and make me want to go there with my characters and imagination and experience those challenges. Sure, great stories can be told there, but the campaign setting itself does not flavor those adventures.
I expect the campaign setting to be as creative and edgy as the adventures I want to run and play in.
As I stated above, my two favorite campaign settings are Dark Sun and Ravenloft. You cannot play in those two campaign worlds without the setting itself coloring the adventure.
Greyhawk if it was ever an option!