The Cleric

[Evanta]

As a guy who has been playing the cleric for most of his D&D life, I'm not sure that I like the way the domain powers are done.

I just recently started stating out a lvl 12 dwarf cleric for a playtest, and I'm already seeing issues.

IMO, the 3.5 cleric already has enough book-keeping to do with spells, racial abilities, turn UD, and 2 domain abilties.

The new domain powers DRASTICALLY lengthens the amount of stuff I can potentially do in my round. Considering I already have to keep track also of health status of team mates, as well as my own spells etc, I think it's a wee bit too much.

I can see where you guys are going with the cleric, I dun mind the nerfing, but can you guys simplify the cleric instead of making it more complicated?

IMO, the domain powers should really:
1. Be a significant factor in distinguishing between clerics (rather than just being a she-bang of abilities)

Basically envision them as powers that are at-will (like orisons) or allow spontaneous conversion of certain spells.

2. Kept simple, usually 1-liners abilities that can be written clearly and concisely like most of the old domain powers.

E.g Glory Domain
Lvl 1 Power - Positive channeling adds +3 damage vs. UD
Lvl 4 Power - At-will: Disrupt Undead
Lvl 8 Power - Spontaneously convert any lvl 3 or higher spell to Searing Light.
Lvl 12 Power - Spontaneously convert any lvl 5 spell or higher spell to Holy Sword
Lvl 16 Power - Grow wings
Lvl 20 Power - Become outsider

E.g 2 War Domain
Lvl 1 Power - Smite 1/day
lvl 4 Power - At-will: Magic Stone
lvl 8 Power - Spontaneously convert lvl 4 or higher spell to Divine Power
lvl 12 Power - Smite 3/day
lvl 16 Power - Spontaneously convvert lvl 7 or higher spell to Powerword: Blind
lvl 20 Power - Permanent +3 to hit and dmg?

[Evanta]

Hmmm no one's a fan of clerics?

[Skrapsan]

Evanta wrote:

Hmmm no one's a fan of clerics?

I'm a fan of clerics.

But I must agree to the points presented here. But I would also like to expand on it to all the spellcasters. I agree that extra powers are cool, I think that its wonderful that they are now able to contribute slightly to combat even when all their spells are cast. I feel that the amount of text that one has to keep track of is getting out of hand.

[Evanta]

The other option I can think of to reduce book-keeping, is to change the cleric to a spontaneous variant.

[Savael]

I for one like the changes made to clerics. Previously, clerics had tons of empty levels, and you were at a disadvantage if you didn't plan ahead and prestige class out as soon as possible.

With the domain abilities granted at future levels, you also see clerics getting more flavor and different skills, instead of just having your usual cookie cutter good and evil clerics.

That being said, I would like to see powers that are actually unique, instead of just throwing in spells that used to be domain spells and saying 2/per day. Maybe I've just been spoiled by class abilities from Morninglord of Lathandar, Sunmaster of Amaunator, or the Radiant Servant of Pelor.

I only hope that if/when they introduce prestige classes, the cleric ones let levels stack for determining domain powers.

Lastly, I think I would recommend that if they are going to have more abilities to take care of some of the empty levels, they should augment them with bonus divine feats at certain levels instead of just more and more abilities that are repeats of domain spells.