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They talked about 1 updated campaign setting a year.. this worries me that they won't do many additional supplements.. I know I wasn't very happy with the 3/3.5 offerings for the Realms.. something tells me there will be even less. They feel "bloating" a campaign setting with too many books is bad. *sighs*
As a Realms fan I feel sick that I was right. Wizards announced at the GAMA trade show that there will ONLY be 3 Realms supplements; Forgotten Realms Campaign Guide, Player's Guide to the Forgotten Relams, DM's Guide to the Forgotten Realms.
THAT IT. Nothing else, nothing more. Off to Eberron and a few books for it in 2009. The off to another setting (probably Dragonlance) in 2010.
Sure the novel line will continue.. but if 3 supplements is all they planned... why did they have to trash the Realms to do it?
They talked about 1 updated campaign setting a year.. this worries me that they won't do many additional supplements.. I know I wasn't very happy with the 3/3.5 offerings for the Realms.. something tells me there will be even less. They feel "bloating" a campaign setting with too many books is bad. *sighs*As a Realms fan I feel sick that I was right. Wizards announced at the GAMA trade show that there will ONLY be 3 Realms supplements; Forgotten Realms Campaign Guide, Player's Guide to the Forgotten Relams, DM's Guide to the Forgotten Realms.
THAT IT. Nothing else, nothing more. Off to Eberron and a few books for it in 2009. The off to another setting (probably Dragonlance) in 2010.
Sure the novel line will continue.. but if 3 supplements is all they planned... why did they have to trash the Realms to do it?
I can't help feeling they had plans for a new setting altogether but had to select one to act as the front as Greyhawk did for 3.0.
Personally I'd rather they used the setting they described in those 2 preview books rather than what they've done to Faerun but who knows what they have planned next.
Sure the novel line will continue.. but if 3 supplements is all they planned... why did they have to trash the Realms to do it?
Here's my theory:
Each setting will only have the books that were announced. I imagine most of these books will be fluff. The reason for this is because I think WotC wants people to buy their "Core" books for the crunch and be willing to put any of this material into the campaign settings they have published. This way, people won't be adverse to buying a book because "it isn't Eberron or Forgotten Realms".
People will buy their Campaign Books - and then they are going to buy all the "core" books for the crunch they need to fill up the campaign world.
In addition, I imagine the DDI having a vast assortment of additional material - similar to the Dragonshards articles for Eberron - specifically for each campaign setting. Of course, this will be the "hook" for people to sign up for the DDI online magazines who aren't interested in the online play DDI offers.
So in summary, sure, there will only be a few published books for each campaign setting, but this allows you to mold any core material to your liking in the setting. In addition, the DDI will provide additional content for a small fee (which of course includes all of the other DDI stuff).
Wizards announced at the GAMA trade show that there will ONLY be 3 Realms supplements; Forgotten Realms Campaign Guide, Player's Guide to the Forgotten Relams, DM's Guide to the Forgotten Realms.
THAT IT. Nothing else, nothing more. Off to Eberron and a few books for it in 2009. The off to another setting (probably Dragonlance) in 2010.
Sure the novel line will continue.. but if 3 supplements is all they planned... why did they have to trash the Realms to do it?
What? Where the devil have you seen this?
Because I've heard the designers, on their own offical D&D podcast, talking about more then just three books. I mean, they talked about the changes to Waterdeep and Myth Drannor, and trust me, there will be a supplement for each of those. I mean, come on there is tons of room for supplements for the Aber continent alone.
I bet what you've heard is just that they've announced only three products for the Realms. Trust me, the cash cow of the Realms is going to be milked as long as it can.
(And folks, before you complain about a new continent being added, don't forget: Kara-Tur, Zakhara, and Maztica are all seperate continnents on Aber-Toril, and they never show up on the maps.)
LINKWhat? Where the devil have you seen this?It's on Enworld.
Well, thank you Wicht, I'll just wait and read that when I get home. (Glares at firewall)
Who made the original post?
Morrus, actually. It seems like this is the plan, three FR books and then to the next setting (Eberron) next year. Each setting will get three or so books and then to the next ...
It looks like they're considering touching back on some old 2E settings, which is great. Hopefully some of my favorites get a come back ... I'd love to purchase an updated book on PS or DS!
Cheers! :)
I'm truly surprised that more on these boards haven't figured it out yet.
Here's the way it works out: Hasbro considers the book publishing trade to be a losing game. Therefore they want WotC to switch from books to an online model as much as possible. Since WotC is going to the D&DI, they don't need to produce as many books to make a profit because many will be spending their cash for Insider access. The ultimate goal here is to eventually get everyone playing online with few or no books being produced at all.
Will there be support for your favorite setting? Yes, and you'll have to pay the monthly fee to get most of it. There will be tons of articles, "supplements", rules additions, etc., and all of it will be online.
Have fun with 5e, folks.
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If people had really listened at DDXP, they announced it then.
They even proclaimed it with the upcoming product list for the year.
Campaign setting, player's book, adventure series, done.
I had it reinforced during a talk with Scott Rouse on Saturday that made it very clear just how deliberate this plan was because WotC had recognized the issues with setting books competing with each other and having diminishing sales. That was something Ryan Dancey had noted before the 2nd ed to 3E change, and which WotC learned was still having an effect even with just having FR and Ebberon.
The main thing they have to deal with now is the urge to break this plan when the two books for any setting sell out in a month and the adventures fly off the shelves. TSR gave into that temptation with Al-Qadim and the final products were not as good as the initial ones.
Aren't you supposed to be working, Sam?
I think the majority of posters here right now are supposed to be working! Obviously Paizo has something against letting us average working DnD players actually perform at our jobs! :P
I'm truly surprised that more on these boards haven't figured it out yet.
Here's the way it works out: Hasbro considers the book publishing trade to be a losing game. Therefore they want WotC to switch from books to an online model as much as possible. Since WotC is going to the D&DI, they don't need to produce as many books to make a profit because many will be spending their cash for Insider access. The ultimate goal here is to eventually get everyone playing online with few or no books being produced at all.
Will there be support for your favorite setting? Yes, and you'll have to pay the monthly fee to get most of it. There will be tons of articles, "supplements", rules additions, etc., and all of it will be online.
Have fun with 5e, folks.
Well, I think there is some truth on what you say, but I'll try to present it in a more optimistic way.
First, Hasbro wants to invest only on what sells.
Setting-based supplements suffer from "ever-decreasing" sales. The introductory books (Campaign guide and Player's Guide) are those which obviously sell most, since they are necessary to run the campaign.
Then, they are followed by some supplements covering the most importants part of the scenarios, good for DMs who liked the setting, but not so interesting for players.
Finally, we have a series of "desperate" supplements which are only bought by die-hard fans of the setting, with clear signs of lack of quality/or imagination (more precisely, when they start putting "drows" and "dragons" on everything. Unfortunately, not even Eberron escaped from this. It's funny to see how goblinoids and orcs are supposed to be far more important than drows on Eberron, yet for every 10 pages written about drows there shouldn't be half a page written about eberronian orcs and goblinoids. Together, of of course).
It's evident that D&D Insider, IN CASE BECOMES A SUCCESS, should be far more profitable than regular tabletop gaming. There are no printing or distribution costs for online gaming. They have guaranteed income every month, unlike on tabletop gaming, where individual players sometimes never buy any book.
The most important advantage of D&D Insider, however, is to attend a repressed demand. There are people who are willing to play D&D (or would be willing if they knew more about the game), but they simply can't. Groups who have difficulty (or even impossibility) of meeting personally. People who want to play but don't know other players who happen to live in the same city, or whom they like to play with.
Remember that with D&D Insider, one who is willing to play D&D, may (theorically) play whenever he wants, by simpling logging on D&D Insider, finding an active group on Glemmax, and start playing immediately.
I believe paper books are still profitable, so I think tabletop gaming will still be available for some good time. But it may possible that, as you say, D&D online-only is the future. However, those who prefer face-to-face gaming may still play - they may simply print the online rules and bring them to the table, or maybe, bring their laptops.
Just don't wait for 5E in case D&D 4E fails to Hasbro's expectations. As I already mentioned on another topic, if this happen, D&D as we know it, is probably dead for good.
If people had really listened at DDXP, they announced it then.
They even proclaimed it with the upcoming product list for the year.
Campaign setting, player's book, adventure series, done.I had it reinforced during a talk with Scott Rouse on Saturday that made it very clear just how deliberate this plan was because WotC had recognized the issues with setting books competing with each other and having diminishing sales. That was something Ryan Dancey had noted before the 2nd ed to 3E change, and which WotC learned was still having an effect even with just having FR and Ebberon.
Well, I hadn't heard anything along these lines, but then I didn't get to go to D&D XP. And you know what? That's probably exactly what the first year of any campaign setting will look like. Three core type books, and then a switch to a new major setting the next year.
What I do not beleive, even for a second, is that three books will be ALL they ever publish for a setting. Six months after Forgotten realms finishes those three books, a year on the outside, we'll see another Realms book on the shelves. I would bet A guide to Waterdeep or the continent of Aber.
I would also bet we will never see the kind of desprate books like "The Shining South" and "Lords of Darkness" book we saw in the FR 3.5. Thos ekinds of books do not sell well at all, because they only get bought by DM's. They want books which will sell to lots of people, not just to the deep dire hards of a setting.
Because of that I do not think we will see is the sheer glut of books that we saw in 3.5. You cannot grow sales just by churning out books constantly. As you said, Ryan Dancey saw that kind of thinking kill TSR, and he was completely right. People perfer Quality over Quantity.
If you release more then one book a month, sales drop significantly because people just aren't willing to buy more then one book a month.
What happened in 3.5 was that each of the campaigns were treated a fully different product lines and released at least a half dozen books a year, along side the new core splat books. So you would see a new Ebberon book, a new FR book, and a new Core splat book all on the shelf beside each other and you had to choose.
If they do things right and release one rules/area book a month and one adventure, rotating what setting they use, they would see very steady sales over a very long time.
Well, I think there is some truth on what you say, but I'll try to present it in a more optimistic way. ... /snip
Great post. Amen.
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What I do not beleive, even for a second, is that three books will be ALL they ever publish for a setting. Six months after Forgotten realms finishes those three books, a year on the outside, we'll see another Realms book on the shelves. I would bet A guide to Waterdeep or the continent of Aber.
Bubbagump covered that.
They will not print it, but they will publish it - on D&DI.At this time, I really think that is all they plan to print. Whether that changes is, as I said, something that remains to be seen.
What I do not beleive, even for a second, is that three books will be ALL they ever publish for a setting. Six months after Forgotten realms finishes those three books, a year on the outside, we'll see another Realms book on the shelves. I would bet A guide to Waterdeep or the continent of Aber.Bubbagump covered that.
They will not print it, but they will publish it - on D&DI.
At this time, I really think that is all they plan to print. Whether that changes is, as I said, something that remains to be seen.
Bubbagump covered the "online only" conspiracy everybody keeps talking about, but I simply do not believe that is their goal. There have been several designers commenting on this, and they have said repeatedly that the game will remain first and foremost a pen and paper RPG.
I really think thier schedule will change. They will indeed be putting a lot of stuff on the D&DI, and that is a really great place to put things like "The complete guide to the Moonsea region", or new "Domains of Dread" each month, once Ravenloft gets rereleased. That is the kind of small audience content that is perfect for their online resource, but they will not forgo the print market entirely. Print books will be reserved for wider appeal things, but they will not be stopped.
Every online company pushes to get into the brick and mortar gaming stores to increase their sales. WotC is not going to pull themselves out of that. Things like Waterdeep and Myth Drannor are simply too big to put up in text based articals like most of the D&DI have been. They deserve and will get full fledged books. It won't happen right away, and it won't be on a large scale, but it'll happen.
Aren't you supposed to be working, Sam?Class is not for another 2 hours. :)
Slacker.
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If people had really listened at DDXP, they announced it then.
. TSR gave into that temptation with Al-Qadim and the final products were not as good as the initial ones.
I would not agree with that part of your message. I loved all of Al-Qadim, and always found it a very coherent setting.
Care to elaborate more ? i'd like to see your opinion on this
If people had really listened at DDXP, they announced it then.
. TSR gave into that temptation with Al-Qadim and the final products were not as good as the initial ones.I would not agree with that part of your message. I loved all of Al-Qadim, and always found it a very coherent setting.
Care to elaborate more ? i'd like to see your opinion on this
Basicly, what happened at the end of TSR's run with D&D was product bloat. They produced too many things in too short a time, thus reducing the profit margins on each item to the point that while they were selling a lot of product, they were losing money on each one. There were half a dozn product lines, and because they were producing full bore for each of them, they basicly competed against themselves.
People consider these late game 2nd edition products to be inferior to the initial products in a campaign line because they didn't receive the same amount of attention as earlier ones. This was often true, because they were being churned out way to fast.
Consider what would happen if instead of one Adventure Path book a month, Paizo produced three, or six, egual sized books without expanding their workforce. No matter how hard they work, the finished product would suffer from that kind of overload.
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People consider these late game 2nd edition products to be inferior to the initial products in a campaign line because they didn't receive the same amount of attention as earlier ones. This was often true, because they were being churned out way to fast.
Consider what would happen if instead of one Adventure Path book a month, Paizo produced three, or six, egual sized books without expanding their workforce. No matter how hard they work, the finished product would suffer from that kind of overload.
Ah yes, I'd agree mostly, but why Al-qadim specifically ?
I mean I agree on this about Ravenloft, Dark Sun, Birthright ... but I never that feeling with Al-qadim.
Awesome news, AFAIC.
It makes me even more comfortable about ignoring 4e as well as FR products beyond 3e.
Ah yes, I'd agree mostly, but why Al-qadim specifically ?I mean I agree on this about Ravenloft, Dark Sun, Birthright ... but I never that feeling with Al-qadim.
I'm not sure why Samuel Weiss mentioned that one specifically, but i would argue it happened in all the settings to some degree. Ravenloft, Dark Sun, Birthright, and Al-qadim were all effected.
I'm not a huge Al-qadim buff, but I do have several adventures and I've had the chance to read the main book. The main book was quite good, but the late game adventure I have struck me as lack luster.
Almost all the late game TSR books feel that way to me, and I don't feel it was any fault in the settings themselves. It's just that only a few products of the time stand out as truely good in each setting.
If however, I was Al-qadim buff I might think differently about the Al-qadim products. It's all dependant upon your history with the setting how you view things.
Sam mentioned Al-Qadim specifically because it illustrates the phenomenon he was describing. Basically, the first book was really good and sold really well. Hoping to capitalize on what they perceived as a demand for the setting, TSR began publishing more Al-Qadim products than they had originally planned for. The later products were produced quickly and without as much eye for detail in order to get them on the shelves as soon as possible, and their quality suffered as a result.
Personally, I liked Al-Qadim quite a lot and immediately incorporated it into the campaign I was running at the time. The later products, though, did not suit me and I suspect many others. While a few may have liked them, the majority did not. As a result, the Al-Qadim setting flopped and the cost of producing the later products ate up the profits produced by the original book.
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"What they said" on Al-Qadim.
When Al-Qadim was originally released, TSR said it was only going to be a 2 year product line. The indvidual releases, including the first adventures, were excellent.
With that success, they extended it another year. Those adventures simply were not as good. They were OK, particularly compared to some of the other garbage they were churning out at the time, but they were not spectacular like the first ones.
As for the online aspect, there is no conspiracy there. WotC people have said they will put out additional setting material in Dungeon and Dragon as part of D&DI. That is their specific plan. Whether it will contain more crunch is something that remains to be seen.
You are right, or were anyway.
Someone high up at WOTC had a dream.
They wanted to reinvent D&D, with one world, The World, in a total of 6 planes.
A war developed with the money men.
It's good business to bring in the other game worlds.
Suddenly there's a 3 books a year plan, and Sigil's back on the table.
If they need to release all modules with Ebberon, Greyhawk, and FR conversion notes to sell the core books, they will.
The same goes for adventure paths, more builder books, ect.
It may be years befor they bring back enough stuff that I will be interested in playing WOTC4.0.
They are even showing some interest in letting outside people create stuff for outside gameworlds.
I think you should look at the three books each for what it is.
Progress.
Bella Sara Charter Superscriber
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I'm truly surprised that more on these boards haven't figured it out yet.
Here's the way it works out: Hasbro considers the book publishing trade to be a losing game. Therefore they want WotC to switch from books to an online model as much as possible. Since WotC is going to the D&DI, they don't need to produce as many books to make a profit because many will be spending their cash for Insider access. The ultimate goal here is to eventually get everyone playing online with few or no books being produced at all.
Will there be support for your favorite setting? Yes, and you'll have to pay the monthly fee to get most of it. There will be tons of articles, "supplements", rules additions, etc., and all of it will be online.
Wait. You mean I get to buy only three core books for a campaign setting but I can also choose to get a constant stream of new content in discrete bites and in a format that makes it easy to reference and assemble instead of digging through a ton of setting books and a ton of core books to find what I'm looking for. Plus, settings didn't see the light of day in 3e will make their way to the shelves and be supported on a regular basis?
And that's bad because...
Intelligent analysis and commentary.
Well said. In fact, nice posting history generally. I hope you stick around; this community needs more people like you.
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I would be extremely surprised if they just do three FR books - they need to sell books to make a profit, so I am sure there will be more in the offing. Maybe just not in 2008.
I'm quite that certain that unless they completely mess it all up, they're going to profit a lot more from online gaming and DI than books. Speaking of books... I have a gut feeling that they'll concentrate on core stuff more than on anything else, releasing new adventures, PHBs, MMs, DMGs and "Powers" books each year.
I'm truly surprised that more on these boards haven't figured it out yet.
Here's the way it works out: Hasbro considers the book publishing trade to be a losing game. Therefore they want WotC to switch from books to an online model as much as possible. Since WotC is going to the D&DI, they don't need to produce as many books to make a profit because many will be spending their cash for Insider access. The ultimate goal here is to eventually get everyone playing online with few or no books being produced at all.
Will there be support for your favorite setting? Yes, and you'll have to pay the monthly fee to get most of it. There will be tons of articles, "supplements", rules additions, etc., and all of it will be online.
Wait. You mean I get to buy only three core books for a campaign setting but I can also choose to get a constant stream of new content in discrete bites and in a format that makes it easy to reference and assemble instead of digging through a ton of setting books and a ton of core books to find what I'm looking for. Plus, settings didn't see the light of day in 3e will make their way to the shelves and be supported on a regular basis?
And that's bad because...
Who said it was bad?
Who said it was bad?I'm truly surprised that more on these boards haven't figured it out yet.
Here's the way it works out: Hasbro considers the book publishing trade to be a losing game. Therefore they want WotC to switch from books to an online model as much as possible. Since WotC is going to the D&DI, they don't need to produce as many books to make a profit because many will be spending their cash for Insider access. The ultimate goal here is to eventually get everyone playing online with few or no books being produced at all.
Will there be support for your favorite setting? Yes, and you'll have to pay the monthly fee to get most of it. There will be tons of articles, "supplements", rules additions, etc., and all of it will be online.
Wait. You mean I get to buy only three core books for a campaign setting but I can also choose to get a constant stream of new content in discrete bites and in a format that makes it easy to reference and assemble instead of digging through a ton of setting books and a ton of core books to find what I'm looking for. Plus, settings didn't see the light of day in 3e will make their way to the shelves and be supported on a regular basis?
And that's bad because...
The OP.
I'd love to purchase an updated book on PS or DS!
With the 3e Planar Handbook and the Book of Exalted Deeds looming in the past like fiendish vampiric turkeys waiting to rise from their graves in a new 4e night, I'm not sure I'd want WotC to attempt a 4e PS book unless they had some of the original designers from the setting have a hand in the writing and development. I'm not sure some of the in-house team there has the background to really do it justice (Michelle Carter is awesome, but I still worry).
All for the Love of all the gods please keep them away from athas....Oh gods no....no no no ...please gods above make it stop it's done been blew up once WIZARDS LEAVE ATHAS ALONE!
Well said. In fact, nice posting history generally. I hope you stick around; this community needs more people like you.
Intelligent analysis and commentary.
Thanks! One of the reasons I like these boards is the high level of discussions.
All for the Love of all the gods please keep them away from athas....Oh gods no....no no no ...please gods above make it stop it's done been blew up once WIZARDS LEAVE ATHAS ALONE!
I'm curious to know... why do you prefer that a campaign setting has no support at all, than to get Wotc's support?
Even if the "New Dark Sun" happens to suck, how can this be worse than doesn't having anyone publishing it?
I'd be stunned if they released a Planescape setting that used anything other than Sigil from the old. They'll redo it with the new cosmology, I'd bet money on it.
How they are going to do that.. without a Bloodwar, fewer types of fiends, no alignments, etc I don't know. Its the last campaign setting I would have expected them to try to do. But I'll be stunned if they go back to the 'old fluff' in doing it.
Honestly, I doubt there will be a Planescape for 4E.
Two reasons:
1. The main appeal of Planescape was interplanar travel. However, from the Tiers preview, it seems that interplanal travel will become relatively common on Paragon tier, and trivial on Epic tier, without any need of a "City of Portals".
2. Planescape's concepts are strongly tied to the Great Wheel cosmology. Without it, it will become unrecognizable. I doubt that WotC would republish the entire old cosmology only to support a single setting.
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I would be extremely surprised if they just do three FR books - they need to sell books to make a profit, so I am sure there will be more in the offing. Maybe just not in 2008.
I'm quite that certain that unless they completely mess it all up, they're going to profit a lot more from online gaming and DI than books. Speaking of books... I have a gut feeling that they'll concentrate on core stuff more than on anything else, releasing new adventures, PHBs, MMs, DMGs and "Powers" books each year.
Having read further, I think this is right. Now I would be extremely surprised is they actually did do anything else, beyond the online offering. I guess this is more efficient for them, though I dislike the online format myself, and cannot really fault the logic. I don't even really think it is that much of a rip-off, if the content is OK, and many, if not most, of the D&D audience is online anyway, so why not? It is not radically different from the Paizo subscription model (albeit that I much prefer getting a physical book myself along with my pdf). It might even work out cheaper that buying the splatbooks that would otherwise be churned out.
I cautiously optimistic, actually. We shall see - take it as it comes.
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I'm curious to know... why do you prefer that a campaign setting has no support at all, than to get Wotc's support?
Even if the "New Dark Sun" happens to suck, how can this be worse than doesn't having anyone publishing it?
Well, it isn't unsupported, it is supported by a group of fans (Athas.org, if memory serves). Given that they have been fairly faithful to the old 2e precepts in terms of fluff, I guess the worry is for some sort of big event a la the Spellplague. A vague prod at Dark Sun was undertaken in Dungeon and Dragon a few years ago, but it did move the timeline on and was given a mixed reception by the true believers.
Well, it isn't unsupported, it is supported by a group of fans (Athas.org, if memory serves). Given that they have been fairly faithful to the old 2e precepts in terms of fluff, I guess the worry is for some sort of big event a la the Spellplague. A vague prod at Dark Sun was undertaken in Dungeon and Dragon a few years ago, but it did move the timeline on and was given a mixed reception by the true believers.I'm curious to know... why do you prefer that a campaign setting has no support at all, than to get Wotc's support?
Even if the "New Dark Sun" happens to suck, how can this be worse than doesn't having anyone publishing it?
I understand, but as far as I know, we could still have a Dark Sun fan site bringing "traditional" Dark Sun stuff under fair use, as long as it doesn't try to present it as an "official" version.
For those who understand more about laws than me, isn't that correct?
All for the Love of all the gods please keep them away from athas....Oh gods no....no no no ...please gods above make it stop it's done been blew up once WIZARDS LEAVE ATHAS ALONE!
Gah calm down, they are not going to blow up Athas in the same way they blew up the realms.
Forgotten Realms is being changed to match the core setting very closely, yes, buit i seriously doubt that the other settings will be affected on the same level. Yes, spell casting is going to work differently, but i really doubt they'll be killing gods. They needed to do a reset of the Realms because it was the flagship setting for 3rd, and it was pretty easy to do. FR has had so many realms shaking events that there is even a term and acroynm for it.
Athas hasn't been in print for so long most of us don't know a thing about it.
Well, it isn't unsupported, it is supported by a group of fans (Athas.org, if memory serves). Given that they have been fairly faithful to the old 2e precepts in terms of fluff, I guess the worry is for some sort of big event a la the Spellplague. A vague prod at Dark Sun was undertaken in Dungeon and Dragon a few years ago, but it did move the timeline on and was given a mixed reception by the true believers.
Ummm no Dark Sun is not being supported, because there are no new products for it being produced. That's hte RPG defininiton of supported. I am sure that Athas.org is doing a very good job of keeping the setting alive in the minds of the fans, but the setting is not receiving offical support anymore.
Once it does, I think you'll see a reveival of the playerbase for it. And again, I doubt very highly a spellplague will occur.
Athas and Planescape and other settings like it are very old settings. Most players do not remeber the details, and cannot go out to a store and buy a 3rd edition book about them. WotC can go back to roughly the original timeline, introduce just a few new elements and change the magic system (annoying old time lovers some but not as much as a spellplague would) and rerelease the setting in 4E pretty much as it was.
Heck, from what I know some of the things in 4E will fit quite neatly into Dark Sun. Dragons in Dark Sun are hugely powerful mages who took over the world aren't they? The dragonborn be dropped into the world as their newly created servant race without too much difficulty.
The realms unfortunatly is something all the current players know about. A hundred books and novels are sitting on the shelves about it right now. The magic system was heavily discussed, and Mystra and the Weave were very well known as the cause of magic and it's rules. To justify how massivly the mechanics of the world changed with the edition switch, they had to do some serious legwork on the story.
With older settings, and even Ebberon, this isn't nessisary. There isn't a goddess of magic in those settings with such increadibly codified ways and well known history. They can alter the settings slightly without shaking them up like they had to do with the realms.
Honestly, I doubt there will be a Planescape for 4E.
Two reasons:
1. The main appeal of Planescape was interplanar travel. However, from the Tiers preview, it seems that interplanal travel will become relatively common on Paragon tier, and trivial on Epic tier, without any need of a "City of Portals".
2. Planescape's concepts are strongly tied to the Great Wheel cosmology. Without it, it will become unrecognizable. I doubt that WotC would republish the entire old cosmology only to support a single setting.
I'm not sure if I'd agree that Planescape was really tied so strongly to the Great Wheel. We always traveled by portal, not by walking, and even in the new cosmology, portals should work fine. I think PS could work fine without the Wheel.
The Bloodwar, OTOH, is a little more centric to the campaign, and THAT absence I am unsure of ...
Cheers! :)
Athas.org was given the official stamp by wizards years ago so yes stuff they put out and they have put out a bit is deemed for now to be official.
And if there is a 4e athas I have faith in wizards that it will be mutilated and patched back together like some gods awful tinker toy say look at me an't i pretty.
From what i have saw of 4e it will be a very bad fit for athas. If you cant die at any moment,if psionics is magic,and if every adventure and tip into the dying world isn't a struggle to not die , by blade,claw or unrelenting heat then its not DarkSuns.
Athas.org was given the official stamp by wizards years ago so yes stuff they put out and they have put out a bit is deemed for now to be official.
And if there is a 4e athas I have faith in wizards that it will be mutilated and patched back together like some gods awful tinker toy say look at me an't i pretty.
From what i have saw of 4e it will be a very bad fit for athas. If you cant die at any moment,if psionics is magic,and if every adventure and tip into the dying world isn't a struggle to not die , by blade,claw or unrelenting heat then its not DarkSuns.
Well, if they do re-make Dark Sun, it will be after next year, which is when Psionics will come out. As for how easy/hard it is to die in 4E ... well it seemed pretty damn deadly in the playtest my group gave it. Bleeding to death is a lot more random, but when those strikes start rolling in everyone starts sweating. We're playing with the 4E death and dying rules in our AoW game right now and they aren't as forgiving as people on these boards generally assume (but then, I suppose the opinion of 4E on these boards isn't the greatest!)
Cheers! :)
Athas.org was given the official stamp by wizards years ago so yes stuff they put out and they have put out a bit is deemed for now to be official.
And I stand corrected, as apparently they did put out books for 3rd edition that were offical (thank you wikipedia). Gotta love the Open Gaming movement right? Sorry i didn't beleive you, but I had never seen these books on the shelves.
And if there is a 4e athas I have faith in wizards that it will be mutilated and patched back together like some gods awful tinker toy say look at me an't i pretty.From what i have saw of 4e it will be a very bad fit for athas. If you cant die at any moment,if psionics is magic,and if every adventure and tip into the dying world isn't a struggle to not die , by blade,claw or unrelenting heat then its not DarkSuns.
Who says you can't die at any moment? A lot of the playtests have been deadly.
Who says Psionics will be just like magic? There have been no psionic rules released in 4E, and even if they do treat them the two power sources as the same in the Core rules, a campaign setting can change that. That's kind of the point of printing all these different campaign styles, altering the base rules.
As I said before, they had to jigsaw and bomb the Realms only because the of the huge amount of 3rd edition material available. The Vactian magic system was codified by Mystra, and they needed to be removed in order to shake things up. Dark Sun is a totally different situation. Magic is rare, psionics is not, and people are not generally set in their ways about the way the Dark Sun is.
they don't have to do a world changing event for Athas to work. Dark Sun is an out of print setting, and would be dead except for the diligance of its die hard fans. (I'd like to say good going to the folks at Athas. This is exactly the spirit of Open gaming, and I hope you continue itno 4E.)
I bet that Wizards take cues from Athas.org's setting and updates Dark Sun in a very faithful way. They have no reason not to. they had a very good reason to do so with the Realms. they don't with any other settings.
FWIW, I'm pretty sure Athas.org is using all that IP with WotC's express permission. Similar to how Planeswalker runs things for PS (although I don't think they ever published anything?)
A few other 2E campaigns were licensed off like this at the start of 3E, but I don't think many ever actually published anything.
I'd say Athas.org is one of the best, but then being a DS fan, that probably isn't being too fair. :P
Cheers! :)
FWIW, I'm pretty sure Athas.org is using all that IP with WotC's express permission. Similar to how Planeswalker runs things for PS (although I don't think they ever published anything?)
A few other 2E campaigns were licensed off like this at the start of 3E, but I don't think many ever actually published anything.
Cheers! :)
Well, I knew that Ravenloft got liscensed early on because I have two of the books for it, but I thought the rest of the settings simply didn't continue into 3rd edition.
I'm quite happy to have this belief be corrected.