Rage and Powers Should Be Based More on Barbarian Level


Races & Classes


There is a fundamental problem with the barbarian class. There is no compelling reason a fighter should go without at least one level in the class. The ability to have +4 to Str and Con once per day is a phenomenal benefit for the fighter (not to mention the d12 HD and extra skills), and since the bonus hit points from Con are based on character level and not class level, a fighter with one level of barbarian gains the same benefit from a rage that a barbarian does until reaching 11th level. I could go on, but I'm not here to argue for the reasons why it makes the utmost sense for all fighters to do this (except the lawful ones I guess). I am here to argue that rage should be something that is heavily dependent upon one's barbarian level to keep the flavor of raging within the barbarian class.

Suggestion 1: Instead of a +4 to Con, rage grants 2 bonus hit points per barbarian level and a +2 morale bonus to Fortitude saves. Almost mechanically identical, but keeps a ftr19/bbn1 from gaining 40 hp from the rage or worse, the ancient red dragon/bbn1, who gains 70 hp.

Suggestion 2: Limit the number of rage points that can be spent on a rage power by barbarian level. Barbarian level + 2 seems like a good limit.

Suggestion 3: Greater Rage and Mighty Rage do not need to cost more rage points. I am willing to concede that playtesting might suggest otherwise though so I am more pliable on this one.

Anyway, as written, the barbarian is still too tempting of a cherry pick for most fighting classes, especially the fighter. I really hope they address it before the final release because in my humble opinion that was the only thing that was ever wrong with the barbarian to begin with.


The "rage points" mechanic goes a long way towards correcting the all-too-common 3.5 edition 1st-level "barbarian dip" for fighters, but you're right, it probably won't eliminate it. Alas, I lack better suggestions at this point; let me think about it.

Liberty's Edge

airwalkrr wrote:
There is a fundamental problem with the barbarian class. There is no compelling reason a fighter should go without at least one level in the class. The ability to have +4 to Str and Con once per day is a phenomenal benefit for the fighter (not to mention the d12 HD and extra skills), and since the bonus hit points from Con are based on character level and not class level, a fighter with one level of barbarian gains the same benefit from a rage that a barbarian does until reaching 11th level. I could go on, but I'm not here to argue for the reasons why it makes the utmost sense for all fighters to do this (except the lawful ones I guess).

1. Restrictions on multiclassing

Players will multiclass to make powerful builds, if they are free to do so, regardless of the "realism" of such constructions.
See OOTS #127
It's up to the DM to work with the player on that. Where did your fighter get all that specialized training? Which barbarian tribe took you in and showed you how to channel the totem beast? A first level Barbarian switching to Fighter at second level would have to figure out where he or she learnt how to use all that heavy armour and tower shields if he or she spent the last few years running around in hide and leather.

2. Armour and load limit (new rule)

If you don't like an in-game limit on multiclassed barbarian/fighters using rage at high levels, what about adding an armour and load limit to raging?
The rule would be: "A barbarian may rage only when he is wearing no armor, light armor, or medium armor and not carrying a heavy load."

The requirements would be the same as for Fast movement and similar to the monk's limitations: When wearing armor, using a shield, or carrying a medium or heavy load, a monk loses her AC bonus, as well as her fast movement and flurry of blows abilities.

Flavour-wise, it makes sense to limit raging to unencumbered and flexible warriors and the rule doesn't penalize barbarians.

3. Charisma-, Dexterity-, or Intelligence-based skills and feats?

In Alpha 2, there may be another penalty for raging fighters:
While in rage, a barbarian cannot use any Charisma-, Dexterity-, or Intelligence-based skills (except Fly, Intimidate, Ride, and Tumble) or any ability that requires patience or concentration.]

In 3.5, we had "a raging barbarian can use any feat he has except Combat Expertise, item creation feats, and metamagic feats."

In Alpha 2, that sentence is gone, which means either of the following:

A. It's an oversight and just as in 3.5, all feats except Combat Expertise (and feats depending on Combat Expertise) can be used while raging. That also means that feats with minimal DEX and INT requirements can still be used during the rage, whereas DEX and INT-based skills may not.

B. It's an actual rule change. The question is the scope of that rule change, which hinges on the definition of "ability that requires patience or concentration."
I'd say Combat Expertise and all the feats that rely on it (Improved Disarm, Improved Feint, Improved Trip and Whirlwind Attack) are still deactivated during the fit of rage.
Since there is no specific text which limits the deactivation to a specific feat, would other feats which have a minimal INT, DEX or CHA prerequisite be affected? I would rule they are. This means that all the following feats are also unavailable to a raging barbarian:

Deflect Arrows
Dodge
Improved Grapple
Mobility
Spring Attack
Stunning Fist
and all the feats relying on Point Blank Shot.

Now, that hurts the fighter who dipped in one level of barbarian quite badly, as all the funky combat options they invested in are gone in exchange for a few HP which are deducted from the current hit point total after a few rounds and an improved STR. They also gain the fatigued condition at the end of the rage. Is the dipping really worth it?

Note that thanks to the Rage powers, barbarians retain the tactical flexibility lost by the raging fighter.

Dark Archive

"While in rage, a barbariancannot use any Charisma-, Dexterity-, or Intelligence-based skills (except Fly, Intimidate, Ride, and Tumble) or any ability that requires patience or concentration."

The system only states skills, "requires patience or concentration" are up to debate, so all the feats are up for grabs and from the rules stated a barbarian can use them while raged, even combat expertise. Most feats that a barbarian can take are pretty flavorful for rage.

Liberty's Edge

Souphin wrote:
The system only states skills, "requires patience or concentration" are up to debate, so all the feats are up for grabs and from the rules stated a barbarian can use them while raged, even combat expertise. Most feats that a barbarian can take are pretty flavorful for rage.

Indeed, it would be great to have a better idea of what these "abilities" may be. If none of the feats are an ability, what did Jason and his team have in mind when they wrote "any ability that requires patience or concentration"?

I've suggested a rule clarification based on what I think these abilities are.

See What a barbarian may not do while raging - p 10

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