I'm confused about this passage:
Some abilities and spells (such as raise dead) bestow
permanent level drain on a creature. These are treated just
like negative levels but they do not allow a new save each
day to remove them. Level drain can be removed through
spells like restoration. These permanent negative levels
remain after a dead creature is restored to life.
So... if a character dies, is brought back through Raise Dead, they continue on with 1 negative level. Let's say a couple levels down the road, the Cleric learns Restoration. Can the Cleric cast Restoration on that character to remove the Negative Level? The above quote suggests that restoration can be used to do that; and suggests that the loss is permanent. Thus, my confusion.
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I'm confused about this passage:
So... if a character dies, is brought back through Raise Dead, they continue on with 1 negative level. Let's say a couple levels down the road, the Cleric learns Restoration. Can the Cleric cast Restoration on that character to remove the Negative Level? The above quote suggests that restoration can be used to do that; and suggests that the loss is permanent. Thus, my confusion.Some abilities and spells (such as raise dead) bestow
permanent level drain on a creature. These are treated just
like negative levels but they do not allow a new save each
day to remove them. Level drain can be removed through
spells like restoration. These permanent negative levels
remain after a dead creature is restored to life.
AFAIK, permanent negative levels are those that cannot be "shrugged off" later with a Fort save. Therefore, your above scenario should be correct.
AFAIK, permanent negative levels are those that cannot be "shrugged off" later with a Fort save. Therefore, your above scenario should be correct.
Which version? The cleric can cast restoration to remove the negative level or the cleric can't cast restoration to remove the negative level?
It's permanent like Blindness/Deafness... it doesn't wear off on its own, you need to actively do something about it. (At least that's my reading of it). Casting Restoration at any point on someone who has a permanent negative level should negate it.
Wow... so 5,000g for a Raise Dead spell, plus 100 gold for the Restoration... and you've managed the equivalent of a True Resurrection. Granted, with the risk of spell loss. And saved about 20,000 gold in the process.
Or, if you don't mind a little risk, you could do a Reincarnate spell for 1,000 gold and save 23,900 gold from the True Res.
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I already play with a similar house rule and it works fine...Yes the cost is cheaper but it really doesn't effect game play.
True Res gets saved for the time all you have left is a little bit of your buddy. In one of my games a character was killed and all they had was a hand.
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I don't have a problem with permanent negative levels. But casting a restoration to remove them seems too easy, especially after being raised. Death should have some meaning, as well as lacking the ability to cast a Restoration should you get slapped by a vampire.
How about keeping the permanent negative level until your PC raises a level, then you can get rid of one (you raise a level AND remove one permanent negative level)? So you do eventually come back to full working order, just not so quickly. AND you don't need a Restoration to do it.
This forces a distinction between the permanent negative levels caused by failing a save against the 24 hour period after a vampire slap and the negative level caused by death, though. The negative level caused by the vampire should be removable by Restoration, as in 3.5. The death one, I'm not so sure about.
I've used this as a house rule for a long time.
My rule is that you can only get rid of the semi-perm negative level when you've gained enough experience points to advance from the level at which you died to the next level. That doesn't mean you lose it when you get to the next level. It means if I die at 3rd level with 4000 xp and it takes 3,000 xp to raise to 4th level (level up at 6,000 xp) you keep the negative level until you have 7,000 xp (current 4k, +3k difference in levels). This makes it the same effect regardless of when you've leveled up. Otherwise you get lucky if you die just before leveling up and hosed if you die just after leveling up.
I also rule that you can only have 1 semi-permanent negative level at a time. If you die again while you have one it just extends how long you have it. That way the player never falls too far behind the ability levels of the other players.
I think there should just be a max amount of times you can be reserected like 2nd ed maybe your con score or your con modifier
and maybe the 9th level res doesnt count towards your raises
One rather large whole though IS reincarnation... Whats to stop the party from killing the fighter/barbarian and reincarnating them repeatedly till they are bugbears and then using Restoration to deal with the loss..? It would only cost a few thousand one hundred gold for a huge advantage stat wise...
What's to stop this? I hope the fighter/barbarian who is none too keen being killed over and over.
And if not - I would assume the DM, who would prevent the obvious abuse of a rule.
Slight threadjack, but I didn't want to start a new thread. Negative level penalties include a flat -5 hit points/negative level. Sure it makes the math consistent and therefore easier, but is this fair? Suddenly negative level "damage" is way more threatening to the classes with smaller hit dice.
It seems to me that negative level hp penalties should be tied to hit dice. Classes with d6 get -3hp. d8 gets -4hp. d10, -5 and d12 -6.
But then, coming back from the dead takes twice as many hit points out of a Barbarian than a Wizard? How does that make sense?
Sorry, I wasn't clear. Maybe I should have started a new thread. I wasn't asking about the raise dead/resurrection issue. My question is about the immediate effects of negative levels during the combat.
An example:8th level wizard with 28 hp. (average 3.5 hp/HD)
8th level barbarian with 52 hp. (average 6.5 hp/HD)
Each gets hit 4 times by some undead for (1d6 damage + 1 neg. level) per attack. (average damage 14 + 20 points level drain)
Wizard is dead. (-6 hp) Barbarian is just starting to worry. (18 hp)
Which would be fine against a normal damage causing opponent, (combat survivablility is why people play barbarians and fighters) but I feel level draining ought to promote a more equal fear of death amongst the players. There's something about facing a level-drainer that should have all the players thinking attack that other guy not me.
Even with my idea of prorating level drain hitpoint loss to hit dice, after 4 hits the wizard has 2 hp and is ready to drop with one more attack. The barbarian has 14 hp and drops after two more hits.
But then, coming back from the dead takes twice as many hit points out of a Barbarian than a Wizard? How does that make sense?
Now that I think about it. Coming back from the dead should be level proportionate too. Why should the sorceror lose more than a level's worth of hit points, and the barbarian lose less then a level's worth?
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I've been thinking about this for a while, and decided to adopt a house rule "permanent negative levels can only be removed by magic after 1 week." This will therefore require a penalty when coming back from the dead that the character will have to deal with if it happens mid-adventure, but once things are over and there's some downtime, then a restoration will fix them back up. Otherwise, it just seems that the unlisted component of the raise dead spell (and other bring back from the dead spells) is a 4th level spell slot from the cleric.
