We finished PF#2 this weekend.
At the end, the PCs have a collection of Skin Saw masks which together represent quite a bit of wealth if they were to sell them. However, the PCs were very reluctant to sell evil items back into the market. Thus they allied with a temple of Desna and had them destroyed.
With a my own homebrews I would have rewarded this behavior with extra XPs. However, with the PF I'm hesistant to do this as I do not want the group to be too high of a level. As it is, they have not missed many oportunities for XP, so the levels are running on the high side anyway. My solution was to increase treasure amounts in other areas to equate to what they would have gained in selling the masks.
Has anyone else run into this and come up with other ideas to reward the party?
This will also be relevant in future installments as I noticed a few other items that I think the party will destroy rather than sell.
I'd suggest following James Jacobs' example: have good churches pay bounties for evil magic items. That way, players get wealth and know the evil magic items are being taken out of circulation.
I started doing this myself after reading about it somewhere on these boards, and it's made my players happy. They used to hear "jeweled holy symbol of Lolth worth 100 gp" as "stuff to shatter that could have been worth money." An outlet for such items has provided a lift in player morale.
I'd suggest following James Jacobs' example: have good churches pay bounties for evil magic items. That way, players get wealth and know the evil magic items are being taken out of circulation.
Thanks. That will work nicely. And I can use the Temple of Desna that the group is already working with as the church offering the bounties.
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I'd suggest following James Jacobs' example: have good churches pay bounties for evil magic items. That way, players get wealth and know the evil magic items are being taken out of circulation.Thanks. That will work nicely. And I can use the Temple of Desna that the group is already working with as the church offering the bounties.
Right up to the point where all that concentrated evil corrupts a couple of Clerics and you raid a Skinsaw Gathering discovering a couple of "Good Clerics".
"We were there to infiltrate the cult...realy!"
Right up to the point where all that concentrated evil corrupts a couple of Clerics and you raid a Skinsaw Gathering discovering a couple of "Good Clerics".
"We were there to infiltrate the cult...realy!"
One player brought that up in a way. He said he thought it was a good idea as long as the items were really being destroyed, and asked if they could watch or participate to make sure the masks didn't resurface later.
I guess I do have a tendency to make things come back to haunt the PCs, but it is funny that I really didn't intend to do that with the masks.
I like the bounty idea. It wouldn't be as much as they'd usually get, but better than nothing.
I have some really gready souls in that party, so they will be thrilled at that.
Concerning a certain lamia sorceress.... I haven't decided yet when she will be back, but she will. Oh yes.
I have an additional problem: one of my players has some gloves of object reading. For the most part this is really useful because I get to give the players some background and some connections that they would otherwise miss, but I'm having trouble figuring out where Xanesha and the Skinsaw Men are getting their stuff.
My thought is that there's probably a spellcaster or two in Magnimar working for them, and that's where the three different kinds of masks came from. I think that I'll figure out what this person (or these people) are like and add them to the sawmill, since that sounds like a disappointingly easy encounter for a lot of groups. That will also satisfy my players' curiosity as to where these things originate.
Is there any reason that wouldn't work?
Is there any reason that wouldn't work?
I think your idea would work. I had it in my mind that Xanesha got her items from Xin-Shalast or Morkmurian, but you may not want to reveal that yet.
As for the sawmill being easy, it wasn't so easy for my group. They had scouted out the mill during the day by using invisibility potions. I then had the group overhear the cultists talking about a "ceremony" at midnight.
I think your idea would work. I had it in my mind that Xanesha got her items from Xin-Shalast or Morkmurian, but you may not want to reveal that yet.
Actually I'd love to reveal that if it were true, but I thought that the point was that the Skinsaw men were carving the faces off of their murder victims and somehow using them to create the masks. If that's not the case then not only do I not know the origin of the masks but now I don't know why they're carving the skin off of their victims' faces.
Actually I'd love to reveal that if it were true, but I thought that the point was that the Skinsaw men were carving the faces off of their murder victims and somehow using them to create the masks. If that's not the case then not only do I not know the origin of the masks but now I don't know why they're carving the skin off of their victims' faces.
Sorry, I think I communicated that poorly.
I think you are correct on the cult masks. I don't have the book with me at the moment, but I believe the masks were created from victim's skin. I also assumed that the Skin Saw cult was making these themselves.
I just meant that Xanesha's specific items may have come from one of Karzoug's minions. I thought the spear, snake armor, and medusa mask had ties to Thassilon. If that is true, the gloves might reveal that to your PCs.
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Cyrus stared at the old church where they had so long ago deposited the Masks of Skinsaw...
"Think we can surprise Father Janek?" Frau Dewer held up the bottle of Korvian Red.
"Got his favourite drink all ready..." Frau Dewer was smiling. She too had missed the old cleric. They pushed in through the chapel doors.
"Father?" They could hear the chanting now...
In the Heart of the temple, they found Father Janek wearing a Skinsaw Mask and busily sacrificing a child. Frau Dewer dropped the bottle of Korvian Red.
The congregation paused and turned on the visitors.
Cyrus stared at Frau Dewer who had dropped the bottle.
"I'm thinking we should have just stored the damn things in that chest in your mother's attic..."
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Actually I'd love to reveal that if it were true, but I thought that the point was that the Skinsaw men were carving the faces off of their murder victims and somehow using them to create the masks. If that's not the case then not only do I not know the origin of the masks but now I don't know why they're carving the skin off of their victims' faces.Sorry, I think I communicated that poorly.
I think you are correct on the cult masks. I don't have the book with me at the moment, but I believe the masks were created from victim's skin. I also assumed that the Skin Saw cult was making these themselves.
I just meant that Xanesha's specific items may have come from one of Karzoug's minions. I thought the spear, snake armor, and medusa mask had ties to Thassilon. If that is true, the gloves might reveal that to your PCs.
Actually if you put Xan in Hook then you might want to have Xan brief the BBEG on the PCs so that they will know who to target and what their weaknesses are. A couple of Kobolds with vials of black pudding, green slime, etc. should be able to descimate the PCs with a surprise attack. That way Xan can infiltrate Sandpoint while the PCs are off rock climbing.
I just meant that Xanesha's specific items may have come from one of Karzoug's minions.
Oh! I misunderstood. Thanks for the clarification.
I thought the spear, snake armor, and medusa mask had ties to Thassilon. If that is true, the gloves might reveal that to your PCs.
Cool. Maybe she got them from a rune giant. That would be a tiny hint to my (all-giantkin) PCs about what's ahead. I'll reread the Xin-Shalast bit and see if that's likely.
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Now that is weird. Nothing posted in this topic beyond The Editor in Chief's post is showing...nope! 45 minute delay...Scary.
Xan offers up as a potential long term protagonist...doesnt even need to be there to cause trouble.
"Arlo!" Dewer patted Arlo on the shoulder.
"What?" Arlo turned about with dificulty in the crowded street.
"I Just saw that Xan Creep coming out of that shop." Hand on sword Arlo focused his attention on Frau Dewer's direction looking about for trouble.
"Where?" Dewer shook her head. She had Lost sight of the villain.
Object reading = GM Headache Generator
I'm getting some good preview value out of it. Saying that something was previously owned by a dread ghast was properly terrifying to PCs at the beginning of volume two. As long as I think everything through then I'm hoping that I can use these gloves to give a sense of cohesion to the AP even though my players are chaotically bouncing from encounter to encounter without ever thinking things through all that much.
This has implications for Curse of the Crimson Throne.
In addition to Craft Wondrous Item, whoever made these three masks needs to know three spells:
Confusion (Brd 3, Sor/Wiz 4, Trickery 4)
Deathwatch (Clr 1)
Disguise Self (Brd 1, Sor/Wiz 1, Trickery 1)
This implies to me that there's a seventh-level cleric of Norgorber in Magnimar making these things using the skins that the Skinsaw Men bring back from their victims. Ironbriar is only a sixth-level cleric, yet somehow is senior to whoever is making the masks for him.
I'm thinking that this implies some things about this higher-level cleric, but I haven't decided yet where I want to go with it.
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In addition to Craft Wondrous Item, whoever made these three masks needs to know three spells:
Confusion (Brd 3, Sor/Wiz 4, Trickery 4)
Deathwatch (Clr 1)
Disguise Self (Brd 1, Sor/Wiz 1, Trickery 1)This implies to me that there's a seventh-level cleric of Norgorber in Magnimar making these things using the skins that the Skinsaw Men bring back from their victims. Ironbriar is only a sixth-level cleric, yet somehow is senior to whoever is making the masks for him.
I'm thinking that this implies some things about this higher-level cleric, but I haven't decided yet where I want to go with it.
Looks like he recruited a powerful Wizard into his junior clergy...Death Master Prestiege class makes a comeback?
Looks like he recruited a powerful Wizard into his junior clergy...Death Master Prestiege class makes a comeback?
He'd need at least seven levels of wizard (for Confusion), which makes him even tougher. I was thinking he was just a seventh-level cleric of Norgorber with the Trickery domain.
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Looks like he recruited a powerful Wizard into his junior clergy...Death Master Prestiege class makes a comeback?He'd need at least seven levels of wizard (for Confusion), which makes him even tougher. I was thinking he was just a seventh-level cleric of Norgorber with the Trickery domain.
A Superior cleric would never be the underling of an inferior cleric. He/she will definately be that 7th level wizard looking for Clerical Levels (for his Prestiege class as Deathmaster).
Yup. You are looking for the town grave digger...
Am I correct in thinking only the leader of the cult has the mask with confusion integrated into it?
Maybe its a mask of "office"? Given to him by his superior.
He may be a house master (or chapter manager , call it what you will.) But the regional leader may quiet easilly be of level 10 or above.
Just because their church is in the regions capital city doesnt mean the main church would be here. It could quiet easilly be a little unassuming house orbusiness in a little sleepy town somewhere....
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A Superior cleric would never be the underling of an inferior cleric.
Why not? Raw Power (in terms of levels) says nothing about your organisational and leading skills so it may be a clever move to let someone take the leadership with those skills. Besides, to be the No. 1 means to be the no. 1- attack target for any other would-be leaders. Some people just prefer to survive in the shadow of the mighties.
And then there's Xanesha who's the actual power behind the throne. It's she who decides who's in the lead and who not and she would have made sure that the level 7-cleric poses no problems after she has chosen Ironbriar for whatever reasons.
Another thing:
In the minds of desna followers, experience beats power. This mustn't be the same in other churches (actually we know nothing about Father Skinsaw), but I don't think that's the only possibility to organize the church hierarchy in another way either.
This implies to me that there's a seventh-level cleric of Norgorber...
Easy fix to that, I made Ironbriar a higher level Cleric. He was too weak to survive a fight with my PCs as is anyway. He was making them himself in my campaign. Cool description opprotunity: bits of half-finished masks, flensed skulls, and human skin being made into leather all over the office. Nastiness.
I decided to go with a scruffy gnome who was obsessed with all things mask-related.
Janziahabligrin (female gnome cleric7 of Norgorber): CR 7; LA -; Small humanoid (gnome); HD 7d8-7; hp 21; Init +1; Spd 15 ft.; AC 19 (+5 armour, +1 Dex, +2 shield, +1 size, with a +4 dodge bonus vs giants), touch 12, flat-footed 18; Base Atk +5; Grp -1; Atk +1 morningstar +5 melee (1d6-1); Full Atk (same); SA rebuke undead, spell-like abilities; SQ domains (knowledge, trickery), low-light vision; AL NE; SV Fort +4, Ref +5, Will +8; Str 7, Dex 13, Con 9, Int 17, Wis 16, Cha 11.
Languages: Common (Chelaxian), Gnome, Elf, Giant, Varisian.
Skills and Feats: Concentration +9, Craft (masks) +16, Knowledge (arcana) +13, Knowledge (religion) +13, Spellcraft +13; Craft Wondrous Item, Lightning Reflexes, Skill Focus (craft: masks)
Equipment: Masterwork breastplate, masterwork heavy wooden shield, +1 morningstar, wand of confusion (7 charges, DC 13), divine scroll of invisibility
Spells Prepared: orisons (DC 13): cure minor wounds, detect magic, detect poison, guidance, mending, read magic; 1st-level (DC 14): disguise self (d), obscuring mist, protection from law, sanctuary, shield of faith, summon monster i; 2nd-level (DC 15): detect thoughts (d), hold person, owl's wisdom, resist energy, shatter; 3rd-level (DC 16): bestow curse, clairaudience/clairvoyance (d), invisibility purge, summon monster iii; 4th-level (DC 17): confusion, lesser planar ally.
My solution (which was influenced, admittedly, by me forgetting that deathwatch is divine-only) was to have Mammy Graul be the one making the masks. I figured that the Graul's unsavory activities were somewhat infamous, and Justice Ironbriar had been blackmailing their matriarch with the threat of sending a team of adventurers to take them out unless she payed for his silence with magical masks.
That way, they found mention of the Grauls in Ironbriar's cyphered journal. And the Lord Mayor had something more concrete to warn the party about besides "we haven't heard from the fort for weeks: check it out".
Interesting. So the Skinsaw cult saws the skins off victims but doesn't keep them? I kind of like them holding the skins close to home and making the masks themselves. Thanks for the idea, though! I like the way that you crafted a link between the volumes.