My observations: Classes pg 12-19

[Piotyr]

Rogue talents
Finesse Rogue: A rogue may gain the Weapon Finesse feat
in place of a rogue talent.
Makes swash buckler a bit less appealing.

Major Magic (Sp): A rogue with this ability gains the
ability to cast a 1st-level spell from the wizard/sorcerer
spell list. This spell can be cast 2/day as a spell-like ability.
The caster level for this ability is equal to half her rogue
level. The save DC for this spell is determined using the
rogue’s Intelligence modifier. A rogue must have the
Minor Magic rogue talent before choosing this talent.
Minor Magic (Sp): A rogue with this talent gains the
ability to cast a 0-level spell from the wizard/sorcerer spell
list. This spell can be cast 2/day as a spell-like ability. The
caster level for this ability is equal to half her rogue level.
The save DC for this spell is determined using the rogue’s
Intelligence modifier.
Rogues are a non magic class so they should be kept that way.

Dispelling Attack (Su): Opponents that are dealt sneak
attack damage by a rogue with this ability are affected by a
targeted dispel magic, targeting the lowest-level spell effect
active on the target. The caster level for this ability is equal
to the rogue’s level. A rogue must have the Major Magic
rogue talent before choosing dispelling attack.
This is just stupid. Why would an attack dispel the magic?

Wizard changes
School powers
You don’t need to beef up wizards anymore than they already are. They are good enough as is and the point of this is to make classes on par with wizards right?
The being able to cast level 0 spells at will is ok because it gives a wizard something to do when out of spells.

[lastknightleft]

I disagree on the minor/major magic. A rogue is a jack of all trades character much like the bard, giving him a very minor spell that will barely register in play as an option along with 6 other options is just fine and doesn't need to go anywhere. If someone doesn't want to pick it, it isn't paladin or ranger spellcasting, they don't have too.

And Rogue class is supposed to be how you build a swashbuckler in OGL, not to mention that the swashbuckler isn't OGL so them letting you build one with the rogue is a good thing.

[Anry]

I was going to say the exact same thing in regards to rogue/swashbuckler comment.

[beholderbob]

The minor spell ability of rouges is excellent. If you do not want magic in your thievery, simply do not take the option. The real test is - is it too powerful? I think not. The idea is options, and this allows for ninja like powers. I think this allows that flavor to florish w/out shoving it down the throats of thieves who do not want that flavor. They get excellent choices to take instead.

Do the new mods to wizards make them to powerful? Did you notice that the wizard loses his bonus spells for specialization? Now, he does get an ability (one that forces a specialist wizard to 'taste' like a specialist), but it evens out in his loss of bonus spells. The bonus spells granted a lot more flexibility to the wizard then the abilities, so perhaps it is not as bad as you think. Also, a wizard who branches out to a prestige class (almost a guaranteed case) after 5th/6th, now comes at a sacrifice. Since the wizard does not gain bonus spells, by jumping out of the prime class, he loses the bonus abilities for a specialist at higher levels. I think this makes taking a wizard to 20th more palatable - something desperately needed. Otherwise, only a bonus feat every 5 levels and some minor familiar abilities was the call to keep to the wizard class instead of gaining persuing a prestige class. Finally, this will help in the crafting wizardly prestige classes. Before, a class that didn't lose at least 1 casting level (a very bad option), was considered too powerful (something had to be given up, besides that incredible 1/5 lv bonus feat and insignificant familiar boost).

One thing I do think you will need to change is on clerics. You have made Charisma too important. You have altered channeling/turn undead into something far more useful, but its # of uses and DC is based on charisma. Make it 2 uses a day, with bonus uses available over the classes growth (every 3-5 levels). This still keeps charisma very important (the DC!), without making a low charisma a critical weakness (not a high enough charisma, what kind of healer are you, w/only 3/day!). To coincide with your change to turning, I'd suggest as an addition to the power (or as a feat), some options...
1) turn can be a 30' cone or burst from the cleric
2) the cleric can limit the healing to allies only, or perhaps to those that bear the holy symbol, prior marking, including in a daily blessing, what ever...

I'd include a mechanic to encourage players to have a diety, even if not a priest, it encourages all the players to participate in the issue of religion, which aids the cleric's player. Something simple like beneficial spells from a priest of this god are cast at +1 or +2 levels on worshippers of the same god, with a -1 or -2 to avoid the punishment spells from the same god. Just a thought.

Bob

[Jadeite]

beholderbob wrote:

One thing I do think you will need to change is on clerics. You have made Charisma too important. You have altered channeling/turn undead into something far more useful, but its # of uses and DC is based on charisma. Make it 2 uses a day, with bonus uses available over the classes growth (every 3-5 levels). This still keeps charisma very important (the DC!), without making a low charisma a critical weakness (not a high enough...

One might add that charisma also governs the DC of the domain powers.

[The Nephrite]

Jadeite wrote:

One might add that charisma also governs the DC of the domain powers.

Ah, Jadeite... my classier cousin!

[Asgetrion]

lastknightleft wrote:

I disagree on the minor/major magic. A rogue is a jack of all trades character much like the bard, giving him a very minor spell that will barely register in play as an option along with 6 other options is just fine and doesn't need to go anywhere. If someone doesn't want to pick it, it isn't paladin or ranger spellcasting, they don't have too.

And Rogue class is supposed to be how you build a swashbuckler in OGL, not to mention that the swashbuckler isn't OGL so them letting you build one with the rogue is a good thing.

One of the reasons which has turned me away from 4E was that even the "martial" classes have powers/talents that feel outright magical in nature. That is why I don't personally like Minor/Major Magic and Dispelling Strike. The game already enables you to pick spells if you multiclass into arcane spellcasting classes.

(BTW, you could build a swashbuckler with ranger, too, although skillwise he wouldn't be as "effective" as a rogue.)

[lastknightleft]

Asgetrion wrote:

One of the reasons which has turned me away from 4E was that even the "martial" classes have powers/talents that feel outright magical in nature. That is why I don't personally like Minor/Major Magic and Dispelling Strike. The game already enables you to pick spells if you multiclass into arcane spellcasting classes.

(BTW, you could build a swashbuckler with ranger, too, although skillwise he wouldn't be as "effective" as a rogue.)

Yeah but the key difference is that in 4E magic power is forced down every classes throat and renamed to keep them from gagging, in this it's an option. And seriously he has less power with this than if he took a level of wizard, so multiclassing is still a better choice if he's going for magic power.

Now as for rangers, they make kinda okay two weapon fighting swashbucklers, but really you're kinda weak, I'd rather build a swashbukler using a scout. Skirmish damage with Mobility and spring attack, sweet.