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On Rebuking Undead:
Undead creatures within the area are healed a like amount by this wave of negative energy. Hit points above the undead’s total are lost. You can choose whether or not to include yourself in this effect. Undead who are healed by this effect must make a Will save or fall under your command. A cleric can command any number of undead whose total Hit Dice do not exceed his level. Clerics can relinquish control of undead to gain control of new undead. Commanding undead is a standard action that requires line of effect. If a commanded undead is subject to a turning attempt, it does not flee, but does receive a new saving throw to dispel the command effect.
(Emphasis mine)
Just tell your friends to stand back to avoid Neg Energy damage. If you do this at the beginning of combat, the undead are probably at max HP anyway, so they receive no healing.
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Just as a thought - not really related to the op per se. It seems to me that if the negative burst is greater than the current hp of the undead before being healed, they would then make a will save or be controlled. This means that an evil cleric can control powerful undead if he can beat them down in hp first.
What about evil gods that stand against undead? Can their evil clerics turn undead? Will their turn undead heal? Will they be able to cast inflict wounds spells spontaniously?
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What about evil gods that stand against undead? Can their evil clerics turn undead? Will their turn undead heal? Will they be able to cast inflict wounds spells spontaniously?
I think in that particular situation, I would recommend just house ruling that clerics of that particular evil deity get turn undead rather than Rebuke. For situations where it is inappropriate for a cleric to have either, what I have seen done in the past is to replace the turn undead class feature with one of the many "divine" feats that work off of turn undead uses.
Just out of curiousity, do you have an example of an evil god that is specifically anti-undead? Or was that just a "devil's advocate" example.
Just out of curiousity, do you have an example of an evil god that is specifically anti-undead? Or was that just a "devil's advocate" example.
Homebrewed stuff. Evil gods of nature whos followers use savagery and torture to keep civilization from creeping into their lands. They believe undead is unnatural and therefore against nature. A god of Glutney whos followers believe in enjoying all the pleasures of the "flesh", but not of the "unflesh" (one of the few pleasures they stand against is necrophilia). Stuff like that.
By contrast, I also have good gods that are pro-undead. A god of Labor. Make the work load easier on the living by making the unused husks of those that went on before them to do the hard work. A god of protection. Why should the living sacrifice for the living when the dead can do that for them.
On Rebuking Undead:
Undead creatures within the area are healed a like amount by this wave of negative energy. Hit points above the undead’s total are lost. You can choose whether or not to include yourself in this effect. Undead who are healed by this effect must make a Will save or fall under your command. A cleric can command any number of undead whose total Hit Dice do not exceed his level. Clerics can relinquish control of undead to gain control of new undead. Commanding undead is a standard action that requires line of effect. If a commanded undead is subject to a turning attempt, it does not flee, but does receive a new saving throw to dispel the command effect.
(Emphasis mine)
So the evil cleric could intentionally be hurt themselves? Interesting. reminds me of a Guild Wars necromancer. Possibly, at some point in the future ther could be abilities that allow the evil cleric to benefit in some way if they willingly absorb the negative energy . . . such as (and this is only off the top of my head), having the amount of damage they inflict to themself be an amount of damage that is ignored by a target in their turn area. (their non-undead cohort that's standing next to the undead for example.)
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For the cleric being able to decide if they are in the affect, there are other ways that negative energy may not hurt them. One of the big ones is they could be undead themselves. And of course there are some feats(like tomb tainted soul) where you are treated as an undead for negative/positive energy.
That statement goes both ways, though that may be more just a 'possible' thing then a likely one. You could have a good cleric who is harmed by positive energy, so when he goes to turn or heal allies he has to leave himself out of the burst too.
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Yeah, basically the "You can choose..." part of the ability is there so that you decide whether or not the cleric is affected by his own burst. This preemptively protects against unforeseen situations where the PC would want to be excluded from healing or included in damage.
It essentially lets you choose whatever option is best at the moment.
One problem I see is in the balance of turn and rebuke.
When a cleric turns undead, *ALL* undead within the 30 foot burst can potentially be destroyed.
When a cleric rebukes undead, only undead of total hit dice equal to that of the rebuking cleric, and that are within the 30 foot burst, can potentially be controlled.
That is way out of whack. The cleric that rebukes should be able to affect *ALL* of the undead he is able to affect(based on what he rolled) that are within the 30 foot burst.
The evil cleric can potentially control the undead horde, but the good cleric can just as easily blast them to dust.
Holy/Unholy crap! That almost sounds balanced, don'tcha think?
And that doesn't even take into account the cost of the animate dead spell component, which is how rebuking clerics usually get hold of undead minions in the first place. I'm not sure why designers want to continue the screwing over of (usually)evil clerics in this way, when it is an obvious flaw in the rules. :/
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One problem I see is in the balance of turn and rebuke.
When a cleric turns undead, *ALL* undead within the 30 foot burst can potentially be destroyed.
When a cleric rebukes undead, only undead of total hit dice equal to that of the rebuking cleric, and that are within the 30 foot burst, can potentially be controlled.
That is way out of whack. The cleric that rebukes should be able to affect *ALL* of the undead he is able to affect(based on what he rolled) that are within the 30 foot burst.
The evil cleric can potentially control the undead horde, but the good cleric can just as easily blast them to dust.
Holy/Unholy crap! That almost sounds balanced, don'tcha think?
And that doesn't even take into account the cost of the animate dead spell component, which is how rebuking clerics usually get hold of undead minions in the first place. I'm not sure why designers want to continue the screwing over of (usually)evil clerics in this way, when it is an obvious flaw in the rules. :/
Um Maybe it's because if a cleric destroys an undead that's it, but if a cleric controls the entire horde of undead that +X actions that player can take in a round. This is in no way a screw over of evil clerics, an evil cleric actually has the upper hand in that he has numbers and actions at his disposal, whereas the good cleric has the exact same thing he started with.