Hey, all. I wanted to briefly touch on one of the problems I'd like to see fixed in the PFRPG: death at -10 hit points.
This is a reasonable number at low levels, but the "window" of unconsciousness gets very small very fast. As many others have pointed out, (i) this unconsciousness "window" is basically irrelevant at the mid levels when foes do a minimum of 10+ points of damage per hit, and (ii) there is currently a perverse incentive in the game: a higher-level fighter actually prefers to be at -2 hit points rather than 2 hit points. 4E "fixed" this problem in a way that I think goes too far: you have oodles of negative hit points, and generally you simply cannot die until at least three rounds after you go unconscious.
A gritty game appeals to many, and the possibility of sudden death should be real in a game that emphasizes backwards compatibility with 3.5. Some people prefer more heroics, so an option (but not obligation) to snatch life from the jaws of death is preferable.
The solution I propose--which I did not invent--is a two-stage rule as follows:
1) You do not die at -10 hit points. You die at a negative number that is 10 plus your constitution modifier plus your character level. This opens the "window" in a way that scales up with level in a reasonable way. You can still be killed by a single massive hit at any level, but unconsciousness is more common.
2) As a campaign option: characters that exceed their negative hit point limit do not die until 1 round after reaching that negative total. Healing that brings the character above his negative hit point limit prevents him from dying. This allows for a frantic save-him-quick mentality that allows a more heroic game; but it is not for everyone, so it should be called out as an optional rule.
I've played games with both of these rules in play separately and together, and found them to be very satisfying.
Thoughts?
There are already two threads on this subject with many other ideas floating around.
It is obviously something people feel needs fixing.
I have been using a house rule for death and dying for a few years as I am not a fan of the 3.5 rules.
Hey, all. I wanted to briefly touch on one of the problems I'd like to see fixed in the PFRPG: death at -10 hit points.
This is a reasonable number at low levels, but the "window" of unconsciousness gets very small very fast. As many others have pointed out, (i) this unconsciousness "window" is basically irrelevant at the mid levels when foes do a minimum of 10+ points of damage per hit, and (ii) there is currently a perverse incentive in the game: a higher-level fighter actually prefers to be at -2 hit points rather than 2 hit points. 4E "fixed" this problem in a way that I think goes too far: you have oodles of negative hit points, and generally you simply cannot die until at least three rounds after you go unconscious.
A gritty game appeals to many, and the possibility of sudden death should be real in a game that emphasizes backwards compatibility with 3.5. Some people prefer more heroics, so an option (but not obligation) to snatch life from the jaws of death is preferable.
The solution I propose--which I did not invent--is a two-stage rule as follows:
1) You do not die at -10 hit points. You die at a negative number that is 10 plus your constitution modifier plus your character level. This opens the "window" in a way that scales up with level in a reasonable way. You can still be killed by a single massive hit at any level, but unconsciousness is more common.
2) As a campaign option: characters that exceed their negative hit point limit do not die until 1 round after reaching that negative total. Healing that brings the character above his negative hit point limit prevents him from dying. This allows for a frantic save-him-quick mentality that allows a more heroic game; but it is not for everyone, so it should be called out as an optional rule.
I've played games with both of these rules in play separately and together, and found them to be very satisfying.
Thoughts?
Your second option is a little too far for me ... but i'm trying your first idea in my current new campaing .. I think is a good solution to the problem, while not unbalancing the game ..
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I like the ideas, the calculated negative HP based on con and level option seems good.
My only concern is the slow death count as the cleric weighs up when you are about to die. -4 hp, a good 5 rounds left yet then...
The other thing is stabilising. Currently its just luck based. Perhaps you could have a fortitude save and if you fail you take a variable amount of negative HP, 0, 1 or 2 with the current level of negative hits.
In our campaign, I currently rule that the amount of negative hit points a PC can sustain before dying is equal to 10 + character level. Real simple. So a 1st level character would not die until reaching -11 hp and a 20th level character would not die until reaching -30 hp. I think that adding the Con modifier to this score puts that much more emphasis on that ability, making it more valuable than it already is. I understand the concern with players knowing when a fellow companion is going to die. I don't think that in and of itself is a big issue. In our games, I don't allow the players to know other players hp totals while playing, and if a PC falls, the controlling player can't speak in reference to the battle or his PC's condition. It makes for a lot of drama and other PCs always try rush as quickly as possible to tend to a fallen commrade. I'm sure not all groups may like this method, but there can still be other mechanical solutions to increase tension. For instance, with (10 + level) or (10 + level + Con) thresholds for hp, when a character goes into negative hps, if he doesn't stablilize, he would lose 1d4 hp per round instead of the normal 1 per round.
Again, I'm for simplicity and usefulness. 10 + level for negative hit point threshold is easy to remember, and works better than the current system. And I wouldn't worry about the "OK, we have 5 rounds until Trask kicks the bucket..." I don't think that is a big deal.
And what about getting completely rid of the negative hit points? With the new options in PFRPG it's not unlikely that a 1st level character starts with 30 or some HP, so... when it's zero hp, he's dead-dead.
I like the Arcana Unearthed solution - you're disabled at anywhere from 0 to a negative hit point total equal to your Con modifier (minimum 0 to 0), and dying up until negative HP equal to your Con score. Past your Con score, you're dead. It solves the problem of the "exact zero" situation (tougher characters have a wider margin of "not-dying") and it means tougher characters have a wider area of "not dead yet" (and if you're a Diehard, it means you feel like going for a walk).
I also like this rule and use it in my games. I could see -CON as death with the optional rule to allow 1 round to heal the character. It could be described as healing the body before the soul departs.
I like the Arcana Unearthed solution - you're disabled at anywhere from 0 to a negative hit point total equal to your Con modifier (minimum 0 to 0), and dying up until negative HP equal to your Con score. Past your Con score, you're dead. It solves the problem of the "exact zero" situation (tougher characters have a wider margin of "not-dying") and it means tougher characters have a wider area of "not dead yet" (and if you're a Diehard, it means you feel like going for a walk).
I've tried the Arcana Unearthed solution, but found it doesn't really solve the problem at higher levels. Instead of having a 10 point window, a fighter has an 18 or 20 point window. When you're out fighting giants that take 20 hit points from you at a swing, it isn't as much of a help.
Which is why I proposed a solution that scales with level.
I could see -CON as death with the optional rule to allow 1 round to heal the character. It could be described as healing the body before the soul departs.
I used to feel that the few DMs I've seen using this rule were "softball" DMs who didn't want anyone to die at their tables. Sort of like the DMs that let you reroll 1's on the d8 rolls for cure light wounds.
However, as I matured as a game designer and player over the years, I realized that the one-round scramble to get some healing into the "dead" guy--STAT--was really tense and added to everyone's fun.
