Moff Rimmer
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I have a number of misc. comments/questions. But it looks like you want them all separated out..
Pages 4-5 of the Alpha Release.
Dwarves look very much the same (based on what I remember) in the SRD. A boost to Wisdom, but not much else.
Elves on the other hand got a number of new enhancements -- a boost to Intelligence, "Elven Magic", & "Unnatural Beauty".
If you are trying to beef up the races, it feels like dwarves got the shaft.
| Fizzban |
I have a number of misc. comments/questions. But it looks like you want them all separated out..
Pages 4-5 of the Alpha Release.
Dwarves look very much the same (based on what I remember) in the SRD. A boost to Wisdom, but not much else.
Elves on the other hand got a number of new enhancements -- a boost to Intelligence, "Elven Magic", & "Unnatural Beauty".
If you are trying to beef up the races, it feels like dwarves got the shaft.
I will agree with you there. I always thought the elves had it good anyway. I'll also say the half-orc got the biggest shaft when it comes to mics. abilities. I'm not a big fan of unnatural beauty ti just kind of seems like bs, Do dwarves or orcs or sffilbind beast have the same idea of beauty?
The other thing I noticed and this is just art, but why is the elf so muscular?
Fizz
| KaeYoss |
Of course they don't get as much as others (wisdom, some free weapon proficiencies, I think a couple of skill boosts). They were the most powerful race in 3.5 - I always considered them to be very close to LA+1.
So they don't get as much as the rest.
And dwarves are quite powerful in 3.5.
Bonus to constitution, which is very powerful. I'd say it ties with strength, and with sheer varsatility, it outperforms strength.
Penalty to charisma, which is hardly a penalty at all, especially for their usual role: fighter.
Darkvision - not that big a deal, but useful.
Weapon familiarity - basically a flat damage bonus for one-handed weapons
+2 to something like 90% of all saves.
In their favoured role - a heavily-armoured and protected warrior - they easily outperform all the other core races.
The races should be close together, so those who had it too good before will get less than the others, so the balance is restored.
Moff Rimmer
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And dwarves are quite powerful in 3.5.
You make some interesting points, however...
Con vs. Str -- The bonus to Con grants +1 hp per level and a +1 to Fort saves and doesn't affect any skills (in Pathfinder) -- generally not a problem for fighters anyway. A bonus to Str gives +1 to hit, +1 to damage, and improves Climb. The bonus to hit and damage I feel greatly outweighs +1 hp per level and +1 Fort save. For that matter, a bonus to Dex gives +1 to hit on ranged weapons, +1 to Reflex saves (huge), +1 to AC, and affects many more skills (Acrobatics, Escape Artist, Fly, Ride, Stealth, Swim and Theft).
Also, Dwarves get to move 20 feet -- for an upfront fighter, this is a definite disadvantage.
Their bonus to saves is the biggest bonus to being a dwarf. (IMO)
Here's the biggest problem with the dwarf abilities the way I see it -- Most of the abilities are really up to the DM to see in play. If you don't see any magic users, the bonus to saves is useless. If you don't see any orcs, goblins, or giants, that bonus is a waste. If you never have an adventure underground, darkvision is a waste. And you end up with a slow fighter with some extra hit points.
I guess that the same could pretty well be said for the elf. Not sure what the answer is -- just wanted to bring up an observation.
| Mark Hall |
Here's the biggest problem with the dwarf abilities the way I see it -- Most of the abilities are really up to the DM to see in play. If you don't see any magic users, the bonus to saves is useless. If you don't see any orcs, goblins, or giants, that bonus is a waste. If you never have an adventure underground, darkvision is a waste. And you end up with a slow fighter with some extra hit points.
How realistically are you to never run into a spellcaster in D&D? Sure, you might never run into humanoids, but when have you had a game where your ability to save against magic has never been tested? Or never have a use for the ability to see in the dark at any point in the game? Not to mention the benefit of stability, which is highly useful in a trip build (prevents counter-tripping).
| KaeYoss |
Con vs. Str -- The bonus to Con grants +1 hp per level and a +1 to Fort saves
Which is nothing to be sneezed at.
The bonus to hit and damage I feel greatly outweighs +1 hp per level and +1 Fort save.
I'm not sure. The hitting power won't help you if you're lying in a pool of your own blood.
Also, Dwarves get to move 20 feet -- for an upfront fighter, this is a definite disadvantage.
While they're slower than the rest, they don't slow down further with heavy armour. Since the best way to get a nice decent AC is to wear big heavy armour (and get a shield, too), they aren't actually slower, just a bit more encouraged to use heavy armour.
Their bonus to saves is the biggest bonus to being a dwarf. (IMO)Here's the biggest problem with the dwarf abilities the way I see it -- Most of the abilities are really up to the DM to see in play. If you don't see any magic users, the bonus to saves is useless.
Sure, if you don't encounter spellcasters or poison - which basically boils down to making virtually no saving throws, since I'd say that magic and poison make up something like 85% of all saving throws. The rest is dragonfire (despite the game's name, those oversized lizards aren't a regular occurance in most games), traps (and those are basically a save against the party rogue's ineptitude), and natural hazards.
Could as well say that elves are useless because their spell penetration is only useful against enemies with spell resistance, and if the DM doesn't use those, you're useless.
If you never have an adventure underground, darkvision is a waste.
Underground, or in a dungeon, or at night when the moon's not out, or indoors when not everything's illuminated.