PREFACE
I've never participated in Organized Play events. I've only played in one game session at a convention, and that was Marvel Superheroes.
And at least half the time, my friends who did RPGA Living City (back in 2nd edition days) came back complaining about how that session was a waste of time. Often, the issues related to poor judge rulings or failure of the DM to manage difficult players at the table. Sometimes, the issues related to a feeling that a particular adventure was "too railroady." Sure, my friends had fun the other half of the time, but it was still enough of a turn-off that I never wanted to join them.
But now I'm excited about Pathfinder Society, and I'd like to participate. And even more, I want to make sure that when I run events, I have a good chance of running a session people are happy to have played in.
QUESTION
So...can some of those with positive/successful experiences at Organized Play (as DMs or as players) share some insights into what makes a session work well? What should an Organized Play DM do to make a session successful? How do you deal with "difficult" players who show up at your table (I recall stories of cheaters, spotlight-hogs, and even some obnoxious/abusive/drunk folks)? Any insights/stories you care to share would be helpful...and entertaining to read, while we wait for plans to be finalized. Thanks!
RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16
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For myself, I've found that the difference between a great session and a mediocre-to-banal one rests on the DM's shoulders.
Organized play can tempt a DM to come to the table unprepared (he didn't write the adventure, and he'll likely be able to 'wing it' by reading ahead a few pages for the next couple of hours) and to narrowly channel the PC's play to conform with the adventure as written (particularly in early 'rounds' of a multiple-chapter adventure).
The best DM's I've seen, resist these temptations. They come to the table as well-prepped as they would for their own home campaigns: the plot points are familiar; the NPC's are well-characterized; the maps, props, and miniatures are ready to go.
And if the players wander "off-book", the best DMs are right alongside them, making stuff up as need be, just like in their home campaigns.
From what Samuel Weiss has explained on these boards, he comes in with experience as a terrific DM, particularly in these areas.
I hope that the Pathfinder Society explicitly encourages DM's to shine, perhaps even with some training.
For myself, I've found that the difference between a great session and a mediocre-to-banal one rests on the DM's shoulders.
Organized play can tempt a DM to come to the table unprepared (he didn't write the adventure, and he'll likely be able to 'wing it' by reading ahead a few pages for the next couple of hours) and to narrowly channel the PC's play to conform with the adventure as written (particularly in early 'rounds' of a multiple-chapter adventure).
The best DM's I've seen, resist these temptations. They come to the table as well-prepped as they would for their own home campaigns: the plot points are familiar; the NPC's are well-characterized; the maps, props, and miniatures are ready to go.
And if the players wander "off-book", the best DMs are right alongside them, making stuff up as need be, just like in their home campaigns.
From what Samuel Weiss has explained on these boards, he comes in with experience as a terrific DM, particularly in these areas.
I hope that the Pathfinder Society explicitly encourages DM's to shine, perhaps even with some training.
Agreed. DMs make the adventures shine really. It's my hope to recruit only the most committed and talented to our cause. Iron DM has been a great proving ground over the past few years and we are snatching up the winners and highly placed competitors for PFS right off the bat. I also plan to maintain a blog on DMing (offsite) that I hope interested DMs will tune into. I'll be blogging there, but so will other great DMs (Industry greats, Iron DM champions, etc.).
Also at any Con I personally attend, I plan to run the Pathfinder Scenarios being showcased at this con for as many of the judges as possible prior to the public PFS kickoffs.
Training is a great idea too, and may tie in nicely with some ideas I have to expand Iron DM to include a few after-hours (evening time) seminars next year at Gen Con (as long my schedule can handle this).
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Some of those issues are an inescapable consequence of the organized play format, particularly linear adventures. It takes an extreme amount of ability from a writer to come close to a generally open-ended adventure that can be played in a 4 hour convention slot. More importantly, it is absolutely impossible for such an adventure to be completely open-ended; no matter what, it is a game that is a specific adventure, and you either play it or you do not. To use a simple example based on Nick Logue, if a session is to be Crown of the Kobold King, you either go to the dungeon in question or you get 0 xp and gp for the session.
The interpersonal issues are more difficult to deal with. I have always said, the best thing about the RPGA is all the people you get to play with, and the worst thing is all the miserable RPGA members you have to play with. Dealing with people who think some sort of membership entitles them to something is the biggest pain. As it happens, most of them tend to show up at the big conventions, which is why the most complaints about them come after those conventions.
Sam! Will we be thieving you over to PFS. We could use Judges with extensive experience and potent skills like yourself my man.
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Contributor, RPG Superstar 2008 Top 6
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QUESTION
So...can some of those with positive/successful experiences at Organized Play (as DMs or as players) share some insights into what makes a session work well? What should an Organized Play DM do to make a session successful? How do you deal with "difficult" players who show up at your table (I recall stories of cheaters, spotlight-hogs, and even some obnoxious/abusive/drunk folks)? Any insights/stories you care to share would be helpful...and entertaining to read, while we wait for plans to be finalized. Thanks!
I've DM'd a few hundred Living Greyhawk tables, I imagine. The first rule is be sure you've read the adventure before you run it. You'd be surprised how often it has only just been skimmed. Look at the stat blocks, and think at least a little bit about how you'll react to what the PCs do. Clearly identify the hook. Try and anticipate questions.
When you actually run the adventure, adapt to what the table wants. Treat the adventure as an outline, not box. Yes, you need to stick to what is generally there, but if the adventure doesn't cover an option, wing it. Try and spread out the attention given the adventure - make sure those who don't grab the spotlight still get some screen time.
Come with a battle matt. Running the game without one just doesn't work that well in an organized play environment. Consider a few props: copies of the handouts are nice, minis of some sort, and if it is something like a scavenger hunt, try and line up the items so you can hand them out as they're found. If you have good scenery, consider bringing that. Little things can add a lot.
Difficult players - not really that big an issue, in my experience. Do be prepared to have some rules arguments, and do listen to them, but remember as the DM, your table ruling generally stands. Cheaters, I make them roll on the the matt where we can see it. Occasionally, I do a "bonus check" if something seems to high. Abusive, drunk, I've just never had happen. Most RPGA players are at least semi-decent people.
I'm planning on being on deck when the Pathfinder Society launches. Hope to see you there!
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Sam! Will we be thieving you over to PFS. We could use Judges with extensive experience and potent skills like yourself my man.
Gah!
Never!I shall resist your foul temptations.
Will save! Will save!
;)
One of the current LG organizers at the local venue is plotting to switch to the Pathfinder Society. I told him to email you about it, and I expect he will be dragging me whether I want to go or not.
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QUESTION
So...can some of those with positive/successful experiences at Organized Play (as DMs or as players) share some insights into what makes a session work well? What should an Organized Play DM do to make a session successful? How do you deal with "difficult" players who show up at your table (I recall stories of cheaters, spotlight-hogs, and even some obnoxious/abusive/drunk folks)? Any insights/stories you care to share would be helpful...and entertaining to read, while we wait for plans to be finalized. Thanks!I've DM'd a few hundred Living Greyhawk tables, I imagine. The first rule is be sure you've read the adventure before you run it. You'd be surprised how often it has only just been skimmed. Look at the stat blocks, and think at least a little bit about how you'll react to what the PCs do. Clearly identify the hook. Try and anticipate questions.
When you actually run the adventure, adapt to what the table wants. Treat the adventure as an outline, not box. Yes, you need to stick to what is generally there, but if the adventure doesn't cover an option, wing it. Try and spread out the attention given the adventure - make sure those who don't grab the spotlight still get some screen time.
Come with a battle matt. Running the game without one just doesn't work that well in an organized play environment. Consider a few props: copies of the handouts are nice, minis of some sort, and if it is something like a scavenger hunt, try and line up the items so you can hand them out as they're found. If you have good scenery, consider bringing that. Little things can add a lot.
Difficult players - not really that big an issue, in my experience. Do be prepared to have some rules arguments, and do listen to them, but remember as the DM, your table ruling generally stands. Cheaters, I make them roll on the the matt where we can see it. Occasionally, I do a "bonus check" if something seems to high. Abusive, drunk, I've just never had happen. Most RPGA players are at least...
Russ, it looks like you and I came from the same background. The advise you provided is outstanding, especially the part about battlemats, knowing the rules, the module, and not being afraid to make some changes (subtle?) to suite what the table needs.
That last bit of advice is the one that I think is overlooked the most by many organized play GM's.
Creativity, imagination and fun are the cornerstones of this hobby. Let's not forget that just because we're all sharing in some "organized" play.
It was in organized play (RPGA Living Greyhawk) that I returned to D&D as I never played during 2e and 3.0. I am still playing today so have found enough enjoyment to keep up with it to some degree.
Ultimately the fun/success of a given table is the responsibility of all who sit down to play. I personally come to every table with a completely open mind, meaning I don't assume my character will need to fulfill a certain role during the game. It is really up to the players to allow each other to fall into their roles as they play. Sometimes my character is the party mouthpiece and I roleplay lots of cenversation. Other times another player obviously wants to fill that role and I sit back and follow along.
You have to be adaptable. I know each player has an idea in their head as to how to play their character but having a character that is abrasive or domineering or pompous doesn't fit the style of game you will be in. Lots of times you sit down with 5 to 6 other people you have never played with before and you have to learn a way to work together; it is the same often times with your characters as your characters come together and adventure with 4 to 5 other characters you have never known. The only way it works is to work together.
Overall I go to perhaps 3 to 4 conventions a year and play in every slot. Most tables are good to great with maybe 1 in 8 being a dud due to one or more of many potential pitfalls. But, I have had just wonderful tables where I have made good friends with other players and DMs. Those are the tables that make it worth it and as you meet people you like gaming with you can try to make sure to game with them more and more at future events.
Eric.
So...can some of those with positive/successful experiences at Organized Play (as DMs or as players) share some insights into what makes a session work well? What should an Organized Play DM do to make a session successful? How do you deal with "difficult" players who show up at your table (I recall stories of cheaters, spotlight-hogs, and even some obnoxious/abusive/drunk folks)? Any insights/stories you care to share would be helpful...and entertaining to read, while we wait for plans to be finalized. Thanks!
My only advice: remember to have a boatload of fun yourself, whatever you decide to do for your players :).
Long digression about my own organized play experiences behind the break.
Nobody wants to be seen as the pushover guy (or gal) who cake-walks players through modules and gives them fantastic rewards . . . but by the same token nobody wants to be seen as the hardass guy (or gal) who TPKs every one of his or her tables. The idea that your judging is being held up to some standard of objectivity can be a bit taxing, especially combined with the prospect that your "reputation" as a GM may somehow be at stake at every table you run. . . and the old RPGA "scoring" system, through which judges were actually graded by their players on categories like "roleplaying", "objectivity", etc., didn't help in this respect.
The secret, of course, is that none of it really matters . . . but it took me a while to figure that out, even after the RPGA changed their "scoring" to make it less intimidating.
After my time with LG and LA, I took some time off of organized play, and concentrated on running simple dungeon crawls at my local game store--mostly just for fun, but also in an attempt to drum up a sort of local gaming network outside of the local RPGA circles. After a while, I realized that I had become a lot more relaxed as a GM, and this was because, running my own stuff, I wasn't worried about being judged against a standard of any sort, even in a public setting. That allowed me to cool off, and bring a way better vibe to the table.
Later, I attended a con, and was asked by the organizer if I wouldn't mind picking up a couple LG tables. I found that taking this more relaxed attitude to the table--and not giving a crap what the hardcore players thought of my objectivity--really paid off, and resulted in some of the best organized play experiences I've had to date. Even hardcore players, as it turned out, cared more about having fun than about judging me or my style.
. . . So I guess that's a long way of saying that if you come to a table prepared to have fun--like you would any other game--then it's going to be fun for everyone involved. Enthusiasm is infectious, and if you're as enthused as I am about the prospects of Pathfinder organized play . . . well that can only lead to some fantastic gaming :).
. . . also I've been told that silly voices help ;).
Cheers and beers; see you at a table sometime.
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I would not call that a digression. Those are very important points.
If you have a choice between being the TPK DM and being the pushover DM, always be the pushover DM.
Nobody* shows up at a convention to play a Living Campaign looking to get TPKed. Trashing someone's character just to prove how bad you are is not merely pathetic, it is damaging to the hobby and the organized play group. Just do not do it.
There is only one reputation you should ever care about developing as an organized play DM:
Being the fun one.
If people have fun at your tables, whether it is crawling away from a brutal adventure or stomping gleefully through a less difficult one, then you have run it the "right" way. Absolutely nothing else matters.
* I did actually meet three guys at Gen Con last year who said they do actually show up every year to get TPK'ed in the core special. With the other two players we discussed it with them, explained that those two players had several dozen hours invested in their characters, and made it clear that if those three died early, it would ruin the adventure for the two regulars. The three understood, played well, and completed the adventure.
Then on the way out I said they were walking in the back, a trap that was disarmed spontaneously reactivated, and their three characters were cruelly slain only feet from the exit. The other two mourned them, looted them, then went home.
Everyone was very satisfied with the outcome, even though I obviously "cheated" at the very end.
There's a lot of good advice here for DM's. Now I'd like to offer a bit of advice for players...be flexible.
You're going to be playing with a lot of different DM's and a lot of different players. They will not only have different styles, but also different understandings of the rules. If you think a ruling from a DM is "incorrect" it's perfectly acceptable to argue your point...briefly...but if your argument doesn't immediately convince the DM (like "look at page 46 of the pathfinder rpg" or the equivelant) drop it and accept the ruling. Adjust your thinking/tactics for the rest of the module and move on.
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Some of those issues are an inescapable consequence of the organized play format, particularly linear adventures. It takes an extreme amount of ability from a writer to come close to a generally open-ended adventure that can be played in a 4 hour convention slot. More importantly, it is absolutely impossible for such an adventure to be completely open-ended; no matter what, it is a game that is a specific adventure, and you either play it or you do not. To use a simple example based on Nick Logue, if a session is to be Crown of the Kobold King, you either go to the dungeon in question or you get 0 xp and gp for the session.
The interpersonal issues are more difficult to deal with. I have always said, the best thing about the RPGA is all the people you get to play with, and the worst thing is all the miserable RPGA members you have to play with. Dealing with people who think some sort of membership entitles them to something is the biggest pain. As it happens, most of them tend to show up at the big conventions, which is why the most complaints about them come after those conventions.
I too have seen the best and worst of RPGA. Living City was a great but unwieldy experiment. When those at the top started to clean it up people got upset, but it was needed.
Add to it the Pargon members who decided to join but got pissy that they had to start at 1st level like veryone else. So RPGA starts Living Jungle and all the others campaigns.
This is why I volunteered to help. To make sure that PFS has all the best it can. To make sure that everyone is on a leveled playing field and that over all their playing experiance is memorable.
As for orginized play the key is to keep on the path of the adventure. 4 hours is not alot of time for my tastes but the adventures are usually linear or easy to follow. Where the player shines is their own reactions to the adventure and any side events that may run for PFS. As a DM it is my respossiblity to make the PCs the heroes as it should be.
