Archade's Combat Feedback - Grapple


Combat & Magic

Dark Archive

So, we looked at the grapple rules. The problem here is the rules as written don't say what the grappler can do. I offer the following:

GRAPPLE
As a standard action, you can attempt to grapple a foe, hindering their combat options. If you do not have Improved Grapple, improved grab, or a similar ability, attempting to grapple a foe provokes an attack of opportunity from the target of your maneuver. Attempting to grapple a foe without two free hands imposes a –4 penalty on the attack. If you grapple an opponent, you must continue to make a check each round to maintain the hold. If your target does not break the grapple, you get a +5 circumstance bonus on grapple checks made against the same target next round.
While you are grappling or maintaining your grapple, you may move to any square adjacent to your target, and you may attack your opponent or any other target with weapons not otherwise engaged by grappling your opponent with one or both hands.

I would suggest that if you get a pin result, you can move at half speed, dragging your opponent.

That sound reasonable?

Dark Archive

I have some further feedback from one of my players, who is currently playing a grapple character (it's pretty disgusting, a minotaur fighter with improved grapple, gloves of ogre strength, etc).

He doesn't mind the tone-down in size bonuses, or the scaling CMB threshholds, but he really feels taking away the damage component of grapple makes his entire character ineffective.

I would propose the following

1) On a successful grapple, the grappler may inflict unarmed nonlethal damage, and on a pin, may inflict unarmed lethal damage. Obviously monks can choose to do lethal damage with a regular grapple. If you are grappling with one hand, you may do damage with a wielded one handed weapon, or a natural weapon (such as a minotaur's horns)

2) Alternatively to doing damage, you should be able to move your opponent - perhaps a 5 foot shift with a grapple, and double-cost movement with a pin?

Other than that, my player wasn't too dismayed - he honestly felt he was exploiting a rule that wasn't totally fair, and could understand the tone-down, and still enjoy his character.


I'd like to add to this my own feedback on the new Improved Trip. Only got to use it once in our game last night, but the character who had previously been built to trip needed to ask what she added to her roll. I was able to give her the trip DC on a Savage Tide character just by eyeballing the numbers and asking her what her BAB and strength were. She rolled low but tripped the spindly little trog cleric anyway because the DC was lowered by the trog's lower BAB and Strength. She was more skilled, higher level, and equal to him in size on the check because of a Dahvler-Nar's Tooth effect (I modified it to count for more than just grapple to increase its utility to the character). The trip attack was quick, but it did put the trog at more of a disadvantage than before. In an opposed roll, she would have likely lost. But it sped things up and was pretty fair, since she was supposed to be more skilled in the arena than him.

Dark Archive

Oh, on Improved Trip, I'd recommend putting back the attack. If you succeed in your Trip by DC +10, you get either a free attack, or do automatic damage as if you had attacked.


My look at Grapple (quite positive so far) was that first the name of the "Grappled" condition on the grapple results list has to be changed (perhaps to "Locked") because it confuses all other references to Grapple since someone that is "Grabbed" would also be involved in a grapple but wouln't be "Grappled" etc. etc.

Ex. of confusion, the fist sentence after "Pinned" page 42: "If you are grappled, you can attempt to break the grapple as a standard action by making a combat manoeuvre roll..."

Otherwise, I feel that some of the "secondary results" of the 3.5 grapple should be achievable (possibly as some alternate progression of a grapple ex.: if you roll DC +10 you could have you target "Grabbed" and cause damage or moved instead of being "Grappled/Locked") or included in the current conditions (ex.: Someone "Pinned" could be prevented to call for help, without necessarily being prevented from casting after a successful spellcraft).

Last quick comment (I might repost in Feats & Skills), Weapon Finesse could be upgraded to Combat Finesse and also allow someone to use Dex instead of Str in his CMB for Disarm, Trip, Grapple and possibly even all manoeuvres (If you've seen some Aikido and some Fencing you know what I mean but those could be argued as being part of the BAB).

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