Skills - Static DCs of skills that interact with NPC / Monsters

[Steven Grover]

I have always found that static DCs that interact with NPC/Monsters that have no modifier for that creatures ability/Skills/Saves to be a broken concept.

Prime examples are:
Diplomacy
Arobatics(Tumble)
Concentration

Furbur Fuzzyfist, Halfling Rogue 7th level, Dex 18
Tumble Skill w/No Magic : Ranks(10) + Dex(4)

Cannot fail to successfully Tumble around any creature that exists and is only level 7, this occurs earlier with the application of magic and feats.

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With any of those skills after a certain level you can affect creatures from kobolds to dragons and beyond with little or no chance of failure. I would recommend that the DC be set to a set value then modified by the appropriate Ability Mod/Skill/Save to represent the interaction that is occuring. The creatures reflex could be kept secret so that the players choice to tumble is not purely based on math.

You are trying to prevent an attack of opportunity from movement, so it would seem easier to move around an ooze as compared to doing so to that multi-armed sword wielding demon.

Move through a threatened area : DC10 + Reflex Save of affected creature
Move through an enemy's space : DC20 + Reflex Save of affected creature
(Increase the DC by +2 for each opponent above one that threaten a particular location))

Example:
Furbur Fuzzyfist, Halfling Rogue 7th level, Dex 18
Acrobatic chosen for Trained Skill : 1d20 + 7 + 3 + 4

3 gargoyles that have dropped among his party of 4, he needs to get past them to unlock the door.
DC 20 : Base DC 10 + 6(Gargoyle Reflex) + 4(2 extra gargoyles)

Now the player has to make a decision about doing his chosen action.

[Tamago]

There's already some conversation about what to do with Tumble.

Diplomacy is also something that needs to be revised, and it's a bit harder. Perhaps some kind of modified level check? For example, roll against a DC of 10 + level + WIS mod?

Personally, I feel like Diplomacy should be less about getting people to like you and more about getting people to agree to something. The PFRPG rules start to go there (page 25), but I think it could use a little more work.

[erian_7]

For diplomacy, I recommend a read of Rich Burlew's thoughts at:

This Old Rule: The Diplomacy Skill

After his discussion of the topic, he even presents his own (OGC) approach to the problem.

[Tamago]

erian_7 wrote:

For diplomacy, I recommend a read of Rich Burlew's thoughts at:

This Old Rule: The Diplomacy Skill

After his discussion of the topic, he even presents his own (OGC) approach to the problem.

That's actually the rule I use in my games! However, I worry that it's a bit too complex for a core book.

[Steven Grover]

Tamago wrote:

erian_7 wrote:

For diplomacy, I recommend a read of Rich Burlew's thoughts at:

This Old Rule: The Diplomacy Skill

After his discussion of the topic, he even presents his own (OGC) approach to the problem.

That's actually the rule I use in my games! However, I worry that it's a bit too complex for a core book.

I use a simplified version of that in my games to keep things moving along at a good pace.

For the concentration checks on casting, I've gone with the original DCs decreased by 5 and then adding on the Reflex modifier and situational modifiers from the original rules. The purpose of doing so is not to stop players from doing the Tumble/Concentration/Diplomacy checks, but to force a decision to be made by the players on the possiblity of success.

[Chef's Slaad]

Steven Grover wrote:

I have always found that static DCs that interact with NPC/Monsters that have no modifier for that creatures ability/Skills/Saves to be a broken concept.

Prime examples are:
Diplomacy
Arobatics(Tumble)
Concentration

another skill that suffers from this problem is theft, although the percetion roll to notice the theft does help a bit.

This is a problem both ways. An NPC or monster with enough skill points in, say, tumble, can automatically pass a group of PCs with no chance of attacks from the PCs.