Tiers of Class Talents

[Dario Nardi]

I love the new rogue with lesser talents (levels 1-9) and advanced talents (levels 10-20).

With all the debate about the new martial feats, why not have lesser martial talents (fighter levels 1,2,4,6,8) and advanced martial talents (fighter levels 10,12,14,16,18, 20)?

These talents would be usable once-per-round and taken from the new feats Jason B. made, and we can keep all the usual 3.5 feats as automatic.

Then maybe do this for wizard schools and cleric domains?

With the concern about spell schools and domains as too rigid... why not segment those abilities into lesser and advanced talents, allowing wizards and clerics to pick as they please? Because some of the highest level spells are so powerful, you might make a third menu of archmagi-like talents.

Similar to the fighter, the wizard selects from a menu of lesser wizard talents at 1st, 2nd, 4th, 6th and 8th level; then selects from a menu of advanced wizard talents at 10th, 12th, and 14th levels; and finally, selects from a menu of archmagi talents at 16th, 18th, and 20th levels.

EXAMPLE:
Transmutation School - Lesser Talents
At levels 1, 2, 4, 6 and 8, select one lesser talent from the list below. You can use each selected talent as a spell-like ability 1/day. Options:
--physical enhancement
--telekinetic fist
--enlarge person
--spider climb
--haste (self only)
--alter self

Transmutation School - Advanced Talents
At levels 10, 12 and 14, select one advanced talent from the list below. You can use each selected talent as a spell-like ability 1/day. Options:
--change shape (as polymorph, but can use rounds over day)
--telekinesis
--disintegration
--ten's transformation
--plus a few more from the archmagi and loremaster prestige classes

Transmutation School - Archmagi Talent menu
At levels 16, 18 and 20, select one archmagi talent from the list below. You can use the selected talent as a spell-like ability 1/day. Options:
--ethereal jaunt
--iron body
--time stop
--fluid form
--plus a few more from the archmagi and loremaster prestige classes

It works from what Jason has done, but adds a feeling of choice.

The cleric domains would work in a similar way. :-)

I don't suggest this - in general - for the other classes (barbarian, etc) because they have their own class features, although a few overlaps (paladin and cleric talents, druid and nature-related domains) might be appropriate.

Thoughts?

[All DMs are evil]

Got to agree with you here, I have yet to see a positive word said about the combat feats as a whole. yes I like some of them, I actively dislike the chained ones.

3 rounds to get to the end of chain is way to long.

So folding them into the fighter class and tweeking them seems a better option to me.

Your wizard suggestions are also of merit.

[Dario Nardi]

So I tried to convert the cleric domains into lesser and greater talents, and perhaps avatar talents. Not so easy as the wizard! Maybe best to leave as-is. Besides, clerics already have a lot of choices, as they can pray for almost anything. Domain spells represent their god's choice.

[Lord Thasmudyan]

I agree about the talents tree being more across the board (minus cleric as Dario says)

[Joey Virtue]

All DMs are evil wrote:

Got to agree with you here, I have yet to see a positive word said about the combat feats as a whole. yes I like some of them, I actively dislike the chained ones.

3 rounds to get to the end of chain is way to long.

Another time here i agree with you DM me and my group really disliked the chaining part of the feats i would love a better explanation of the rational behind them

[Dario Nardi]

NECROMANCY EXAMPLE
Another thread is examining whether necromancy should be only nasty raising undead stuff. So I redid the necromancy school with options. It has more than the transmutation option, perhaps too many, but easier to par down.

For wizards...

Necromancy School - Lesser Talents
At levels 1, 2, 4, 6 and 8, select one lesser talent from the list below. You can use each selected talent as a spell-like ability. Options:
--Grave Touch (at will)
--ray of enfeeblement (1/day per 2 caster levels)
--false life (lasts 24 hours)
--detect undead (at will)
--hide from undead (extends to 4 other party members, 1/day)
--animate dead (limited to number of skeletons and zombies per day with a total number of HD equal to your caster level)
--disguise self (at will, to appear as undead)

Necromancy School - Advanced Talents
At levels 10, 12 and 14, select one advanced talent from the list below. You can use each selected talent as a spell-like ability 1/day unless stated otherwise. Options:
--polymorph (undead form only, 1/day as swift action)
--Create undead (1/day)
--Finger of Death (1/day)
--Speak with dead at will (but subject to spell's limitations)
--Vampiric Touch (3/day)
--spectral hand (at will)
--magic jar (1/day)

Necromancy School - Archmagi Talents
At levels 16, 18 and 20, select one archmagi talent from the list below. You can use the selected talent as a spell-like ability 1/day unless stated otherwise. Options:
--Horrid Wilting (1/day)
--Energy Drain (1/day)
--Deathless (type changes to undead, permanent)
--Raise Dead (1/day)
--magic jar (at will, but subject to spell's normal limitations)
--Shapechange (undead form only, 1/day as swift action)