Invisibility

[Thraxus]

I was discussing the idea of combined skills with some of my players last Monday and the issue of Invisibility came up. Under the 3.5 rules, invisibility provides a +20 DC modifier to Spot checks (as well as a host of other rules to notice an invisible creature)

I know that under the Pathfinder rules, invisibility gives a +40 bonus to Stealth check if you are immobile and a +20 bonus if you move. Does this apply against listen based checks to hear an invisible opponent? Does an individual make two checks, one to spot and one to hear? Or is it one Perception check with the Stealth check modified by the roll against one form of perception (i.e., PC Perception roll of 20 against a target's Stealth roll of 20, 40 against sight due to invisibility)?

I guess the main question is how would the invisibility rules work with a single Perception skill? Also, would it be better to replace invisibility with a thematically similar ability that modifies Stealth evenly against all senses, allowing for one skill check to attempt to locate the "invisible" target?

[janxious]

Call it the "Predator" skill.

[Epic Meepo]

Thraxus wrote:

I guess the main question is how would the invisibility rules work with a single Perception skill?

I agree with the OP that invisibility requires clarification when one uses a unified Perception skill.

I would suggest specifying a DC to pinpoint a creature using only sight, but allowing a creature to substitute a different sense by taking a sufficiently large penalty on the check. (But creatures with scent would ignore the penalty when substituting scent for sight and creatures with tremorsense would ignore the penalty when substituting touch for sight.)

Being invisible or having concealment would just mean that one cannot be pinpointed using only sight. The normal rules for non-visual Perception - and for opposing Perception with Stealth - would still apply. (Presumably, being incorporeal means that one cannot be pinpointed except by sight or maybe sound, and being both invisible and incorporeal means that Perception is useless against you unless you make noise.)